Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design
This is going to be a bigger problem than many stations may have anticipated. A friend of mine has an all-channel antenna on a rotor and can get 20 analog stations. He purchased a converter to see what he could get in digital. He can only get four, and three of those pixilate quite badly. Almost everything has gone to UHF here. My area is in the fringe of two markets. UHF doesn't work as well in the hills. I doubt translators will be implemented -- too much money. Chuck - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design At 2/19/2009 18:08, you wrote: Along these same lines Has anyone on this list built / put into practice a Gray-Hoverman panel antenna? How do they perform? Is it worth building one? Double or single? http://www.casano.com/projects/hoverman/index.html I'm about 70 miles from my target DTV market. (Pittsburgh, PA) NOBODY here can seem to get the Pittsburgh ABC affiliate with their current V/U antenna setups. (WTAE4) I have some people that I am helping get their converter boxes hooked up and working. They are VERY disappointed that they won't be able get their news from channel 4 once DTV has gone into full effect. (They DO have one of the areas BEST news teams - in my opinion.) The center of the map says it all IMO: A4 - D51. Would be nice if they backfilled ch. 4 after the cutover, but I think the channel #s on the map indicate the final assignment. I'm wondering if a dedicated UHF panel and good UHF only preamp will help the situation. I think all you can do is go for max. gain @ ch. 51 hope the problem isn't multipath; if it is you're SOL unless you go WAY up in the air with the antenna. Stacked Yagis might get the job done @ ch. 51, but then you'd need another antenna for the other channels. Don't know if a parabolic would be broadband enough - depends on the type of feed if the aperture (diameter) is large enough to work reasonably at the lowest DTV channel. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design
butBut...BUT... I thought The Almighty and Everlasting Digital Signal (Praise Be To Its Bits Eternally, Ignore That Pixellating Behind The Curtain ! ) was going to cure all the supposed ills of that nasty old NTSC demon Can it be that ONCE AGAIN, we were fed a crap sandwich by the NATVB and the FCC ? PLEASE..tell me it ain't so ! Pessimist About All Things Digital, Gary in IL - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design This is going to be a bigger problem than many stations may have anticipated. A friend of mine has an all-channel antenna on a rotor and can get 20 analog stations. He purchased a converter to see what he could get in digital. He can only get four, and three of those pixilate quite badly. Almost everything has gone to UHF here. My area is in the fringe of two markets. UHF doesn't work as well in the hills. I doubt translators will be implemented -- too much money. Chuck - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design At 2/19/2009 18:08, you wrote: Along these same lines Has anyone on this list built / put into practice a Gray-Hoverman panel antenna? How do they perform? Is it worth building one? Double or single? http://www.casano.com/projects/hoverman/index.html I'm about 70 miles from my target DTV market. (Pittsburgh, PA) NOBODY here can seem to get the Pittsburgh ABC affiliate with their current V/U antenna setups. (WTAE4) I have some people that I am helping get their converter boxes hooked up and working. They are VERY disappointed that they won't be able get their news from channel 4 once DTV has gone into full effect. (They DO have one of the areas BEST news teams - in my opinion.) The center of the map says it all IMO: A4 - D51. Would be nice if they backfilled ch. 4 after the cutover, but I think the channel #s on the map indicate the final assignment. I'm wondering if a dedicated UHF panel and good UHF only preamp will help the situation. I think all you can do is go for max. gain @ ch. 51 hope the problem isn't multipath; if it is you're SOL unless you go WAY up in the air with the antenna. Stacked Yagis might get the job done @ ch. 51, but then you'd need another antenna for the other channels. Don't know if a parabolic would be broadband enough - depends on the type of feed if the aperture (diameter) is large enough to work reasonably at the lowest DTV channel. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links -- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design
Maybe your digital is less versatile than our here in Au ? I live a long way from the tx site and experience little degredation with my nice shiny new set top box and antenna . Or maybe your analogue setup simply doesn't work well on the wrong frequencies ? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: glaen...@verizon.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 06:51:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design butBut...BUT... I thought The Almighty and Everlasting Digital Signal (Praise Be To Its Bits Eternally, Ignore That Pixellating Behind The Curtain ! ) was going to cure all the supposed ills of that nasty old NTSC demon Can it be that ONCE AGAIN, we were fed a crap sandwich by the NATVB and the FCC ? PLEASE..tell me it ain't so ! Pessimist About All Things Digital, Gary in IL - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design This is going to be a bigger problem than many stations may have anticipated. A friend of mine has an all-channel antenna on a rotor and can get 20 analog stations. He purchased a converter to see what he could get in digital. He can only get four, and three of those pixilate quite badly. Almost everything has gone to UHF here. My area is in the fringe of two markets. UHF doesn't work as well in the hills. I doubt translators will be implemented -- too much money. Chuck - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design At 2/19/2009 18:08, you wrote: Along these same lines Has anyone on this list built / put into practice a Gray-Hoverman panel antenna? How do they perform? Is it worth building one? Double or single? http://www.casano.com/projects/hoverman/index.html I'm about 70 miles from my target DTV market. (Pittsburgh, PA) NOBODY here can seem to get the Pittsburgh ABC affiliate with their current V/U antenna setups. (WTAE4) I have some people that I am helping get their converter boxes hooked up and working. They are VERY disappointed that they won't be able get their news from channel 4 once DTV has gone into full effect. (They DO have one of the areas BEST news teams - in my opinion.) The center of the map says it all IMO: A4 - D51. Would be nice if they backfilled ch. 4 after the cutover, but I think the channel #s on the map indicate the final assignment. I'm wondering if a dedicated UHF panel and good UHF only preamp will help the situation. I think all you can do is go for max. gain @ ch. 51 hope the problem isn't multipath; if it is you're SOL unless you go WAY up in the air with the antenna. Stacked Yagis might get the job done @ ch. 51, but then you'd need another antenna for the other channels. Don't know if a parabolic would be broadband enough - depends on the type of feed if the aperture (diameter) is large enough to work reasonably at the lowest DTV channel. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00 _ Want to marry your mail? Combine your email accounts here! http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=633386
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design
Hey, I checked and found the problem Here, the value of a '1' is really 0.9985 and '0' = 0.0015 Digital' is not true digital at all, but the creators of the system said 'Close enough, those rubes in the flatlands of IL will never notice!' Let's get 'da gubmint' involved in fixing this, I'm sure it can be corrected for only $ 150,000,000,000 or so... Gary - Original Message - From: Barry To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design Maybe your digital is less versatile than our here in Au ? I live a long way from the tx site and experience little degredation with my nice shiny new set top box and antenna . Or maybe your analogue setup simply doesn't work well on the wrong frequencies ? -- To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: glaen...@verizon.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 06:51:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design butBut...BUT... I thought The Almighty and Everlasting Digital Signal (Praise Be To Its Bits Eternally, Ignore That Pixellating Behind The Curtain ! ) was going to cure all the supposed ills of that nasty old NTSC demon Can it be that ONCE AGAIN, we were fed a crap sandwich by the NATVB and the FCC ? PLEASE..tell me it ain't so ! Pessimist About All Things Digital, Gary in IL - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design This is going to be a bigger problem than many stations may have anticipated. A friend of mine has an all-channel antenna on a rotor and can get 20 analog stations. He purchased a converter to see what he could get in digital. He can only get four, and three of those pixilate quite badly. Almost everything has gone to UHF here. My area is in the fringe of two markets. UHF doesn't work as well in the hills. I doubt translators will be implemented -- too much money. Chuck - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design At 2/19/2009 18:08, you wrote: Along these same lines Has anyone on this list built / put into practice a Gray-Hoverman panel antenna? How do they perform? Is it worth building one? Double or single? http://www.casano.com/projects/hoverman/index.html I'm about 70 miles from my target DTV market. (Pittsburgh, PA) NOBODY here can seem to get the Pittsburgh ABC affiliate with their current V/U antenna setups. (WTAE4) I have some people that I am helping get their converter boxes hooked up and working. They are VERY disappointed that they won't be able get their news from channel 4 once DTV has gone into full effect. (They DO have one of the areas BEST news teams - in my opinion.) The center of the map says it all IMO: A4 - D51. Would be nice if they backfilled ch. 4 after the cutover, but I think the channel #s on the map indicate the final assignment. I'm wondering if a dedicated UHF panel and good UHF only preamp will help the situation. I think all you can do is go for max. gain @ ch. 51 hope the problem isn't multipath; if it is you're SOL unless you go WAY up in the air with the antenna. Stacked Yagis might get the job done @ ch. 51, but then you'd need another antenna for the other channels. Don't know if a parabolic would be broadband enough - depends on the type of feed if the aperture (diameter) is large enough to work reasonably at the lowest DTV channel. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00 -- Combine your email accounts here! Want to marry your mail? -- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design
-snip- Pessimist About All Things Digital, Gary in IL -snip- I HEAR THAT! =] Kill off my analog C-band for pizza dish channels stacked 20 to a transponder. Kill off my analog Motorola 550 flip phone [about 2 bath size soap bars] for gurgling under water conversations. Kill off my analog TVRO on the ic-7000 for what? Kill off my open reel tape for CD-audio [well, that didn't hurt quite as much] Oooh, 100% digital quality picture and sound! Yeah, compressed about a zillion times to cram as much junk into 1 slot as possible. =] Chris Kb0wlf
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design
As long as they send more gubmint cheese with them naughts and unns, we-all in Missouri Ozarks will be just fine! Chris Kb0wlf From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Glaenzer Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:03 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design Hey, I checked and found the problem Here, the value of a '1' is really 0.9985 and '0' = 0.0015 Digital' is not true digital at all, but the creators of the system said 'Close enough, those rubes in the flatlands of IL will never notice!' Let's get 'da gubmint' involved in fixing this, I'm sure it can be corrected for only $ 150,000,000,000 or so... Gary - Original Message - From: Barry To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design Maybe your digital is less versatile than our here in Au ? I live a long way from the tx site and experience little degredation with my nice shiny new set top box and antenna . Or maybe your analogue setup simply doesn't work well on the wrong frequencies ? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: glaen...@verizon.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 06:51:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design butBut...BUT... I thought The Almighty and Everlasting Digital Signal (Praise Be To Its Bits Eternally, Ignore That Pixellating Behind The Curtain ! ) was going to cure all the supposed ills of that nasty old NTSC demon Can it be that ONCE AGAIN, we were fed a crap sandwich by the NATVB and the FCC ? PLEASE..tell me it ain't so ! Pessimist About All Things Digital, Gary in IL - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design This is going to be a bigger problem than many stations may have anticipated. A friend of mine has an all-channel antenna on a rotor and can get 20 analog stations. He purchased a converter to see what he could get in digital. He can only get four, and three of those pixilate quite badly. Almost everything has gone to UHF here. My area is in the fringe of two markets. UHF doesn't work as well in the hills. I doubt translators will be implemented -- too much money. Chuck - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design At 2/19/2009 18:08, you wrote: Along these same lines Has anyone on this list built / put into practice a Gray-Hoverman panel antenna? How do they perform? Is it worth building one? Double or single? http://www.casano.com/projects/hoverman/index.html I'm about 70 miles from my target DTV market. (Pittsburgh, PA) NOBODY here can seem to get the Pittsburgh ABC affiliate with their current V/U antenna setups. (WTAE4) I have some people that I am helping get their converter boxes hooked up and working. They are VERY disappointed that they won't be able get their news from channel 4 once DTV has gone into full effect. (They DO have one of the areas BEST news teams - in my opinion.) The center of the map says it all IMO: A4 - D51. Would be nice if they backfilled ch. 4 after the cutover, but I think the channel #s on the map indicate the final assignment. I'm wondering if a dedicated UHF panel and good UHF only preamp will help the situation. I think all you can do is go for max. gain @ ch. 51 hope the problem isn't multipath; if it is you're SOL unless you go WAY up in the air with the antenna. Stacked Yagis might get the job done @ ch. 51, but then you'd need another antenna for the other channels. Don't know if a parabolic would be broadband enough - depends on the type of feed if the aperture (diameter) is large enough to work reasonably at the lowest DTV channel. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00 Combine your email accounts here! Want to marry your mail? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.234 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1947 - Release Date: 02/11/09 18:11:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design
I wonder if your govco has enough left after dubya has had his way to even commission a study for repair let alone an actual fix ? Digital either works or it don't , we all know that so why do some find it so hard to understand ? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: glaen...@verizon.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 07:02:32 -0600 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design Hey, I checked and found the problem Here, the value of a '1' is really 0.9985 and '0' = 0.0015 Digital' is not true digital at all, but the creators of the system said 'Close enough, those rubes in the flatlands of IL will never notice!' Let's get 'da gubmint' involved in fixing this, I'm sure it can be corrected for only $ 150,000,000,000 or so... Gary - Original Message - From: Barry To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design Maybe your digital is less versatile than our here in Au ? I live a long way from the tx site and experience little degredation with my nice shiny new set top box and antenna . Or maybe your analogue setup simply doesn't work well on the wrong frequencies ? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: glaen...@verizon.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 06:51:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design butBut...BUT... I thought The Almighty and Everlasting Digital Signal (Praise Be To Its Bits Eternally, Ignore That Pixellating Behind The Curtain ! ) was going to cure all the supposed ills of that nasty old NTSC demon Can it be that ONCE AGAIN, we were fed a crap sandwich by the NATVB and the FCC ? PLEASE..tell me it ain't so ! Pessimist About All Things Digital, Gary in IL - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design This is going to be a bigger problem than many stations may have anticipated. A friend of mine has an all-channel antenna on a rotor and can get 20 analog stations. He purchased a converter to see what he could get in digital. He can only get four, and three of those pixilate quite badly. Almost everything has gone to UHF here. My area is in the fringe of two markets. UHF doesn't work as well in the hills. I doubt translators will be implemented -- too much money. Chuck - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design At 2/19/2009 18:08, you wrote: Along these same lines Has anyone on this list built / put into practice a Gray-Hoverman panel antenna? How do they perform? Is it worth building one? Double or single? http://www.casano.com/projects/hoverman/index.html I'm about 70 miles from my target DTV market. (Pittsburgh, PA) NOBODY here can seem to get the Pittsburgh ABC affiliate with their current V/U antenna setups. (WTAE4) I have some people that I am helping get their converter boxes hooked up and working. They are VERY disappointed that they won't be able get their news from channel 4 once DTV has gone into full effect. (They DO have one of the areas BEST news teams - in my opinion.) The center of the map says it all IMO: A4 - D51. Would be nice if they backfilled ch. 4 after the cutover, but I think the channel #s on the map indicate the final assignment. I'm wondering if a dedicated UHF panel and good UHF only preamp will help the situation. I think all you can do is go for max. gain @ ch. 51 hope the problem isn't multipath; if it is you're SOL unless you go WAY up in the air with the antenna. Stacked Yagis might get the job done @ ch. 51, but then you'd need another antenna for the other channels. Don't know if a parabolic would be broadband enough - depends on the type of feed if the aperture (diameter) is large enough to work reasonably at the lowest DTV channel. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00 Combine your email accounts here! Want to marry your mail? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1961 - Release Date: 02/19/09 18:45:00
[Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
Good morning All The following is a new FCC web site for DTV Follow instructions carefully. Wait for the program to calculate info. Seems to be one of the best. Confirms what I know from working in the TV business for 30+ years. Last several installing DTV. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ralph,W7HSG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
I just checked this against my location and the results were woefully inaccurate. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Ralph S. Turk To: Repeater-Builder Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV Good morning All The following is a new FCC web site for DTV Follow instructions carefully. Wait for the program to calculate info. Seems to be one of the best. Confirms what I know from working in the TV business for 30+ years. Last several installing DTV. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ralph,W7HSG
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Got some noise from a fan in the system
One thing to remember with the M10 is that it belongs to the same family as the M120 and GM300. Your fan(s) MAY be causing vibrations in the receive or transmit radio rather than radiated RF noise. There have been many problems with receive microphonics at high receive volume levels and weird TX noise in the series of mobiles. Most of the time, reseating the RF and logic boards on the interconnecting pin header and tightening PC board screws and RF shields will eliminate this. Randy WB0VHB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Peter Summerhawk commcon...@... wrote: Well I already cut the hole in the side of the cabinet so I guess its off to rat shack for a AC fan. The DC one is just to noisy to be heard on the machine. When in doubt modify right? Will the AC fan cut the noise I take it after reading the passage on cooling Mike? I hope so as I want thins thing in and mounted to get my boss off my back over all of this. Thanks Peter Summerhawk On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@...wrote: At 08:02 PM 02/19/09, you wrote: Morning, I have a couple of M-10 radios run together with a 12VDC fan keeping them cool in the cabinet. However the power block has them all run into the same line fed by the power supply. You can hear the noise of the fan when you key the repeater. Would a filter help this on the positive line of the fan? Or maybe a coil to filter the noise? I am at a loss as to what might keep the system cool but also eliminate the noise of the fan as well. Thanks for the help in advance. Peter Summerhawk Unless you have a battery in the system to let the repeater ride out a short power failure the simplest thing to do is to swap the DC fan for an AC fan, and run the fan off the switched AC in the power supply. If you have to keep the fan on DC, well, I touch on fans and fan noise in my writeup on Mitrek interfacing. See this link: http://www.repeater-builder.com/mitrek/mitrek-interfacing.html and scroll down to the Cooling section. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
Yup. Woefully inaccurate (too optimistic) for my location too, but after zooming all the way in I am impressed with their terrain data. :-) Chuck Kelsey wrote: I just checked this against my location and the results were woefully inaccurate. Chuck WB2EDV http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
I had mixed results. It said I'd get stations that I can't and said I won't get stations that I do. Same thing for another location I checked. Chuck - Original Message - From: Paul N1BUG paul_n1...@myfairpoint.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV Yup. Woefully inaccurate (too optimistic) for my location too, but after zooming all the way in I am impressed with their terrain data. :-) Chuck Kelsey wrote: I just checked this against my location and the results were woefully inaccurate. Chuck WB2EDV http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Got some noise from a fan in the system
I've made this same setup many times. I usually mount a fan blowing directly on the TX radio. I then put a 50 ohm 10 watt power resistor in the line to the fan with a 1000 uf capacitor 25 volt capacitor to ground on the fan side of the resistor. This setup will take out most or all of the dc noise, depending on the fan you use This setup slows the fan just enough to cut down on some of the fan wind noise as well as making the fan last longer. Hope this helps, Mike --- - Original Message - From: Dakota Summerhawk To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:02 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Got some noise from a fan in the system Morning, I have a couple of M-10 radios run together with a 12VDC fan keeping them cool in the cabinet. However the power block has them all run into the same line fed by the power supply. You can hear the noise of the fan when you key the repeater. Would a filter help this on the positive line of the fan? Or maybe a coil to filter the noise? I am at a loss as to what might keep the system cool but also eliminate the noise of the fan as well. Thanks for the help in advance. Peter Summerhawk
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Got some noise from a fan in the system
Good Morning Peter -- Before I can suggest anything I need some more information. Is this a Motorola repeater, in a cabinet with a motorola power supply? Are you using a motorola RIC, basically - what is the configuration of the repeater? I ask this because it has been well documented in the past that some controllers exhibit fan noise when they are connected in such a way as to control the fan activity or ar in parallel with the power of the repeater on a less than high quality supply capable of handling the repeater total current -- Rick NU7Z On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Dakota Summerhawk commcon...@gmail.comwrote: Morning, I have a couple of M-10 radios run together with a 12VDC fan keeping them cool in the cabinet. However the power block has them all run into the same line fed by the power supply. You can hear the noise of the fan when you key the repeater. Would a filter help this on the positive line of the fan? Or maybe a coil to filter the noise? I am at a loss as to what might keep the system cool but also eliminate the noise of the fan as well. Thanks for the help in advance. Peter Summerhawk
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
At 07:02 2/20/2009, Chuck Kelsey wrote:  I just checked this against my location and the results were woefully inaccurate. I just checked this against my QTH and it was 95% accurate with respect to actual experience. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: mailto:w7...@comcast.netRalph S. Turk To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV Good morning All The following is a new FCC web site for DTV Follow instructions carefully. Wait for the program to calculate info. Seems to be one of the best. Confirms what I know from working in the TV business for 30+ years. Last several installing DTV. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ralph,W7HSG No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1960 - Release Date: 02/19/09 10:48:00 -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
I find it horribly inaccurate since it doesn’t take into account receiving height. What height are they calculating for? Set-top first-story height? Rooftop? Tower top? At the dirt? I know they didn’t compensate for the 20 ft altitude change between the end of my driveway and the front door of my house. The exact position of the receiving antenna dictates a LOT. A couple years ago, with my scanner and a telescoping antenna, I could hear 1 UHF station’s audio at my mailbox (low, at the road) Near my house, 4 ft AGL - 3 Inside my house, 4 ft AGL – 1 (I watched 9/11 news off this station using set-attached rabbit ears, go figure). Oddly enough, not the same station that I can hear at my mailbox (this station would be very non-LOS at my mailbox) At the ‘tree line’ on my tower – 7 150’ up my tower – a whole hell of a lot more (all high power stations from Tyler/Lufkin/Houston/Dallas-Ft Worth/Austin/Shreveport/Beaumont [within 250 miles or so]). Some were very faint, but definitely there (and this is with an Omni antenna and a half-deaf Uniden scanner…), some were stomped on by local low-power stations. The issue at that height is the antenna being directional enough to isolate on-channel noise. Now, the real question is, how bad does Fresnel affect DTV vs analog. I betcha you’ll have horrible problems with DTV signal in areas that tend to ‘ghost’, where analog TV was perfectly watchable/listenable, just somewhat annoying. 9901 Sweetwater, Houston, TX 77037 (house where I grew up) had this problem. As downtown Houston “swole” in the late 70s/early 80s ghosting became more and more of a problem. All we could do is kick our antenna farther west and add a variable signal attenuator (ie ‘ ghost filter’) - didn’t help a whole lot. JS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph S. Turk Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV Good morning All The following is a new FCC web site for DTV Follow instructions carefully. Wait for the program to calculate info. Seems to be one of the best. Confirms what I know from working in the TV business for 30+ years. Last several installing DTV. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ralph,W7HSG
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
How much RF does it take to get a clear NTSC picture? Usable? I know the local cable tower tried to get at least a -20 dBm signal (!!!) on analog TV inputs. Most DTV converter units with published spec's need between -82 dBm and -86 dBm at the antenna jack on the back of the unit to capture a complete bit stream. I do *not* know how much SNR is required to get a complete bit stream. Personally, I'm not in the TV business but I crawl around on a lot of rooftops and 'nice' home-use TV towers. Most people's OTA setups contain at least one range-eating screw-up. These things will do a lot worse nasties to a digital signal than an analog: A improperly assembled antenna. So many times I see the UHF 'bowtie' on store bought all-band antennas positioned incorrectly. The instruction sheet knows best. B Unsealed coax connections. F connectors ain't waterproof, not even the 'snap-n-seal' ones. C Most preamps I run into are at least 10 years old. Sure they might still work, but RF transistor technology has sure improved in the last few years. These amps are *not* going to pass DTV acceptably. In my rf/data experience otherwise, if the bitrate/frequency ratio is very high (DTV is doing 20 mbit out of 6 mhz of spectrum, that's a pretty damned high ratio) D Height. If you want your antenna close to the ground, might I suggest getting a little round grey one that points to the Clark Belt, with a box attached that requires you to shove dollar bills in an envelope every month to continue working. You will be happier. Personally, I've always heard rural TV requires one foot of height per one mile of distance in flatland conditions... I think this holds true once you're 25 miles from the transmitter site (maybe less if the site isn't a typical 1950 ft tall tier-1 market TV tower). Check your location against topo maps. Just one small hill can screw up all your calculations (or a big river valley can pull signals in from ridiculous distances at low heights) E Bad coax choices: Either incorrectly crimped, incorrectly handled, improperly spec'd (white indoor coax won't stay 'good' outdoors for more than a few months, maybe a year) etc coax used, then badly installed (not secured). There are very good 75 ohm coaxes available. RG-11 is pretty nice stuff. F off-channel noise slaughtering your amplifier. Most TV amps are unfiltered (or contain a simple 88-108 FM trap), if you've got a big pager transmitter, repeater, etc (cellphone stuff doesn't tend to count since its fairly low power) nearby you could easily be 'hosing' the entire setup. Filters are your friends. I plan to do some experimentation with marketed-for-cable-company inline filters. Normally used to keep Basic Cable customers from seeing other channels, or cable-modem-only customers from watching TV, they sell these in all sorts of specialty frequencies for cheap. Can't beat cheap + published specifications. Here's how I'd get HDTV today, assuming I really wanted to watch OTA TV: Info: I'm about 175 miles from Houston's tower farm, 140 miles from DFW's tower farm, and there's a sprinkling of stations around Tyler and Lufkin... I have a 150' rohn 25 in my yard, about 185 ft from my house. There's currently 2 strands of multimode fiber going from my house to the tower, speaking Ethernet (100mbit, full duplex). I'd buy one of these: http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun ($180), place it in an outdoor-friendly metal enclosure with an Ethernet-fiber converter/transceiver. I have isolated 120VAC running up my tower already, powering the gear isn't a problem. Add antennas. I'd most likely go with dedicated VHF and UHF antennas and tuned/filtered amplifiers on each, and use a nice 'ham radio' type rotator. Keep the coax short, use RG11, and seal it well. I'd buy a nice HTPC (Home Theater PC... nothing fancy, just a basic PC with TV-friendly outputs. If you've got a decent TV it'll take HDMI or DVI, which is even better). Microsoft's set-top/media center edition software is good enough to test with, at least. ($400-500ish total here) Dedicated duplex (2 strand) fiber run from the top of the tower to the top of my TV set... Of course, having the tools, fiber, ends and knowledge helps. And, after all this, I'd get to watch horrible reality shows, get my daily dose of propaganda (news), watch late-night TV guys make asses out of themselves, and the 3 decent shows PBS shows when they're begging for more money to run transmitters that they don't need (pbs.org should offer streaming...) Doesn't really seem worth the effort/wind load/money... :) JS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:42 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - an interesting antenna design This is going to be a bigger problem than many stations may have anticipated. A friend of
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Outlook needs a 'trigger lock' on the send button... Also, I have no idea why outlook decided to add a bunch of crap to my email. Guess I should be using a decent mail program! edits below: C Most preamps I run into are at least 10 years old. Sure they might still work, but RF transistor technology has sure improved in the last few years. These amps are *not* going to pass DTV acceptably. In my rf/data experience otherwise, if the bitrate/frequency ratio is very high (DTV is doing 20 mbit out of 6 mhz of spectrum, that's a pretty damned high ratio) Continued: If the bit density is very high, you really do not want to use amplifiers. Amplifiers *always* add distortion. You also can't magically 'find' signal that's below the noise floor with an amplifier. All you can *really* do with an amplifier in most digital systems is make up for coax losses (as long as the amp is mounted at the antenna, and no the far end of the loss), which one would be better off making as small as possible and eliminating the amplifier. With DTV this is easy since you're dealing with 1's and 0's, capture and process the data as close to the antenna as possible, and move to a less 'lossy' medium to move the data into your house. If you insist on using coax and decoding at your TV set, you're going to have to buy good coax. 'good coax' satellite use isn't always good for OTA TV use. All *real* pro setups I've seen here use RG11 or larger *75 ohm* coax. --- JS
[Repeater-Builder] Re: how to wire a GM338 as a link on a TKR-750
On Feb 18th predahunt01 predahun...@yahoo.com wrote: Im currently working on a TKR-750, and need to wire a GM338 as a link,audio from the TKR-750 to GM338 is not working im using a simple controller for it can anyone give me some advice T_T Take it step by step. Using an oscilloscope (or even just a simple audio amp) answer the following questions: 1. Is there audio at the output of the TKR-750? 2. Is there audio at the input of the repeater controller (eliminate a cable fault here)? 3. Is there audio at the output of the repeater controller? 4. Is there audio at the accessory connector on the 338? What level? Are you feeding mic levels to a line-level input or vice versa? 5. Is the GM338 ptt activating via the accessory connector from the repeater controller? 6. Double-check the accessory connector pin assignments (as set in the RSS) and wiring (make sure you're actually connected to the pins you intended. 7. Make sure that any jumpers in the repeater controller and/or GM338 are set correctly. Hope this helps. Apologies if it is too basic - I always find it helpful to go back to first principles when something doesn't work as I expect; sometimes it is easy to overlook the obvious in the search for something more obscure. Regards, -- === Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.ba...@iinet.net.au === signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[Repeater-Builder] Audio Intelligence Devices BXR-2200A Briefcase Repeater
I am looking for any info on an Audio Intelligence Devices (AID) BXR- 2200A briefcase repeater Anyone here have any experience with this, or a pointer on where to look on the web for info? It is a 3 channel, 4 mode setup that operates at 2 and 6 watts with a carrier time-out option for modes 3 (2 watts) and 4 (6 watts). Modes 1 and 2 are the same power without the timeout. The unit is in a Zero Centurion Haliburton aluminum briefcase, operates from internal AC Supply, or external DC source (which both charge the internal Gel Cells when connected) It uses Phelps Dodge duplexers; model number unknown I got it with the intentions of trying it on 2m(600KHz split), MARS or CAP (4 to 5 MHz split) 143 / 148. Any Info appreciated, David KD4NUE Here is a rundown on basic info from looking at the unit. Can send pics (inside and out) if it will help. *** BXR-2200A SERIAL NO 11xx Audio Intelligence Devices Ft. Lauderdale, Florida Gell Cell GC1260 12 Volt 6 Amp (2 pieces) Channel Frequencies: T1 173.8875 T3 R1 165.2875 R2 165.9125 R3 RX Crystal Info: 71.9437 Channel 1 165.2875 (X2+21.4=165.2874) 72.2562 Channel 2 165.9125 (X2+21.4=165.9124) TX 19.3208 Channel 1 173.8875 (X9=173.8872) PA: MHW602 Motorola Brick VHF PA power module Zo OHMS - 50 DC Volts12.5 BW MHz146-174 Max BW140 - 180 P Out Min W 20 P In mW 175 Bias Class C Case 297-02 Frequency Search Yields: Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms 165.2875 r/s Operations (primary) 166.5375 r/s Operations 165.9125 s Unit to Unit 173.8875 s Unit to Unit
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Audio Intelligence Devices BXR-2200A Briefcase Repeater
I believe that you now have a nice Haliburton aluminum briefcase. Perhaps a DC power supply. The duplexer might be usable as some sort of filter for reception in the high VHF range Unless you are licensed for something in the high section of VHF the rest is just a pile of parts. Of course you can spend a lot of time finding that out the hard way. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: David Little dalit...@bellsouth.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:21 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Audio Intelligence Devices BXR-2200A Briefcase Repeater I am looking for any info on an Audio Intelligence Devices (AID) BXR- 2200A briefcase repeater Anyone here have any experience with this, or a pointer on where to look on the web for info? It is a 3 channel, 4 mode setup that operates at 2 and 6 watts with a carrier time-out option for modes 3 (2 watts) and 4 (6 watts). Modes 1 and 2 are the same power without the timeout. The unit is in a Zero Centurion Haliburton aluminum briefcase, operates from internal AC Supply, or external DC source (which both charge the internal Gel Cells when connected) It uses Phelps Dodge duplexers; model number unknown I got it with the intentions of trying it on 2m(600KHz split), MARS or CAP (4 to 5 MHz split) 143 / 148. Any Info appreciated, David KD4NUE Here is a rundown on basic info from looking at the unit. Can send pics (inside and out) if it will help. *** BXR-2200A SERIAL NO 11xx Audio Intelligence Devices Ft. Lauderdale, Florida Gell Cell GC1260 12 Volt 6 Amp (2 pieces) Channel Frequencies: T1 173.8875 T3 R1 165.2875 R2 165.9125 R3 RX Crystal Info: 71.9437 Channel 1 165.2875 (X2+21.4=165.2874) 72.2562 Channel 2 165.9125 (X2+21.4=165.9124) TX 19.3208 Channel 1 173.8875 (X9=173.8872) PA: MHW602 Motorola Brick VHF PA power module Zo OHMS - 50 DC Volts12.5 BW MHz146-174 Max BW140 - 180 P Out Min W 20 P In mW 175 Bias Class C Case 297-02 Frequency Search Yields: Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms 165.2875 r/s Operations (primary) 166.5375 r/s Operations 165.9125 s Unit to Unit 173.8875 s Unit to Unit Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
After years of fiddling with digital here as I said it either works or not , any installer worth his salt will install to the signal by simple portable analysis test if need be ( not a cheap machine) and reliance on a web site to me at least makes little sense , remember treating it like analogue is a recipe for failure To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: jsu...@intrastar.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:32:55 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV I find it horribly inaccurate since it doesn’t take into account receiving height. What height are they calculating for? Set-top first-story height? Rooftop? Tower top? At the dirt? I know they didn’t compensate for the 20 ft altitude change between the end of my driveway and the front door of my house. The exact position of the receiving antenna dictates a LOT. A couple years ago, with my scanner and a telescoping antenna, I could hear 1 UHF station’s audio at my mailbox (low, at the road) Near my house, 4 ft AGL - 3 Inside my house, 4 ft AGL – 1 (I watched 9/11 news off this station using set-attached rabbit ears, go figure). Oddly enough, not the same station that I can hear at my mailbox (this station would be very non-LOS at my mailbox) At the ‘tree line’ on my tower – 7 150’ up my tower – a whole hell of a lot more (all high power stations from Tyler/Lufkin/Houston/Dallas-Ft Worth/Austin/Shreveport/Beaumont [within 250 miles or so]). Some were very faint, but definitely there (and this is with an Omni antenna and a half-deaf Uniden scanner…), some were stomped on by local low-power stations. The issue at that height is the antenna being directional enough to isolate on-channel noise. Now, the real question is, how bad does Fresnel affect DTV vs analog. I betcha you’ll have horrible problems with DTV signal in areas that tend to ‘ghost’, where analog TV was perfectly watchable/listenable, just somewhat annoying. 9901 Sweetwater, Houston, TX 77037 (house where I grew up) had this problem. As downtown Houston “swole” in the late 70s/early 80s ghosting became more and more of a problem. All we could do is kick our antenna farther west and add a variable signal attenuator (ie ‘ ghost filter’) - didn’t help a whole lot. JS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph S. Turk Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV Good morning All The following is a new FCC web site for DTV Follow instructions carefully. Wait for the program to calculate info. Seems to be one of the best. Confirms what I know from working in the TV business for 30+ years. Last several installing DTV. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ralph,W7HSG _ Get rid of those unwanted christmas presents! Get what you want at ebay. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%3Fid%3D10_t=763807330_r=hotmailTAGLINES_m=EXT
