Re: [Biofuel] pointless bashing.. was robin's solution
lisa simpson wrote: The point of posting the robin williams fluff piece was not to extoll it's questionable 'validity' [notice I never said anything to support it] but rather to illustrate the shallow pointlessness of the incessant 'Merican bashing which seems to characterize 'political correctness' among the globalized liberal elite. First of all, the post didn't illustrate anything, aside from the mindless, evangelical anti Christian, jingoistic reactionism common to the rabid right in the United States and wrongfully attributed to a famous personality in a feeble attempt to give credence to a flaccid perspective. Secondly, in this particular forum, some of the harshest criticism of America comes from Americans who observe the state of our nation with grief and dismay, both conservative AND liberal. Perusal of the archives will confirm this. If you honestly believe that such a thing as the globalized liberal elite exists, the burden of proof falls on your shoulders to demonstrate that anything more than thoughtful disagreement with knee-jerk Americentrism is at work. When a friend tells you that a course of action may harm you or others in your way, he is being a true friend. Real Americans listen. What seems to have gone completely over the heads of most readers is that both are of the same vein. Failing to grasp that point and retorting with personal accusations only illustrates the point further. One does not further one's position by cutting others down, but rather by showing a better way. Then please make a point. Write it in your own words. There are some very sharp minds who contribute to the discussion in this forum, many of them from nations other than our own. I would strongly suggest that you take Keith's advice VERY seriously. Humility is the first step to learning the better way. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Lisa --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Lisa Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Todd discussed the facts and you're trying to squirm out from under. Now stop it and give him an honest response. The nationmaster link states that 10 tons of Pu have been released. At approx 10 kilos per bomb, thats a bunch of big bangs. So hypothetically, I would guess that much more than half a kilo has already been distributed worldwide. Have you got your share of cancer yet? I'm not suggesting that worldwide distribution of plutonium is a good idea, but rather that facts rather than media hype serve a better purpose. Why are you then distributing media hype here, or, worse, fraudulent and contentious material designed to lead astray, apparently without bothering to check it first? Stop your squirming and deal with what's being put in front of you. That's the second time. Finally, I don't think you know much about media hype, and attempting to awaken this list to its perils in the way you claim you're doing would indicate that you haven't been paying a lot of attention to what goes on here. The list archives is definitely one of the better places on the Internet to consult if you want to know about media hype. It's obvious that you haven't been there. I don't think that's what you're really after anyway, it's just a smokescreen. Having trouble are we Lisa? Maybe blundering into an evolved and long-established community and trying to lay down the law when you've only been here a week or so and haven't bothered to do any research on it isn't such a grand idea after all, eh? Anyway, let's have reasoned and substantive responses to Todd, John Hayes, Bob Molloy and the rest please, don't delay, and no more selective snipping. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Don't forget I'm NOT pro-nuclear. ls ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pointless bashing.. was robin's solution
Lisa The point of posting the robin williams fluff piece was not to extoll it's questionable 'validity' [notice I never said anything to support it] but rather to illustrate the shallow pointlessness of the incessant 'Merican bashing which seems to characterize 'political correctness' among the globalized liberal elite. Did you or did you not know it was a fraud? Did you or did you not check it first? You're still squirming, and it's very apparent to all. That's not why you posted it, and you know it very well. So do we know it. Here is a post that might be construed as 'Merican bashing, though in fact it's not, and I believe many or most of the Americans here will agree with that. http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 5-June/000283.html [Biofuel] Re: was Robin's solution... was: DA Drops... It's the one and only such post in the list archives, out of 50,000 over five years. What it is is criticism, and it's well-founded. What this US-bashing BS is all about is that in the lethally polarised US of today there are a large number of people who simply cannot abide any view that differs from their own, let alone criticism. When faced with anything that challenges their cherished notions they lash out. Such behaviour is extremely un-American, anti-American even, though it's invariably dressed up as patriotism (the refuge of scoundrels). This list has never accepted that and never will. Robert said this a few days ago: Most of us agree on far more than we disagree. Sometimes it's hard to read what is written in this forum, but like you, I learn a LOT here from people who come from other places. We Americans have a perspective that many in the rest of the world simply don't share, but they care about us, and we would do well to listen to our friends. Nor is political correctness something you'll find here - when it arises, it's challenged. So, please provide archives links to 'Merican bashing content, and state why it's bashing and not valid and useful criticism. Please do not try your usual squirm by claiming you didn't specify that it happens here or that you were not implying that it happens here, that it's not this list and its knee-jerk US-bashing that you're attacking. I'll let you off the political correctness bit. What seems to have gone completely over the heads of most readers is that both are of the same vein. Failing to grasp that point and retorting with personal accusations only illustrates the point further. One does not further one's position by cutting others down, but rather by showing a better way. What better way have you shown? What 'you' think of 'me' has nothing to do with an objective discussion of any subject. Try posting something objective without using the word 'you'. Why don't you try taking your own advice? Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ls ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] How would any of you answer this one?
More answers: Even as we speak the green house effect will cause seriuos climate changes. It does not matter whether the carbon dioxide is generated from fossile oil, fossile gas or coal. As long as we maintain our dependence on fossile energy this development will proceed. Concerning the nuclear power, it is a fairytale to believe that somebody can guarantee safe keeping of nuclear waste for at least 1.000 years ahead. The more we adapt to atomic power, the more waste, the bigger the fairytale. And even if technology in the future will allow recycling of nuclear waste, splitting atoms to generate electricity brings dangerous radiation and another serious nuclear power plant accident will take place sooner or later. Did anybody know that the nuclear power plants in Sweden are un-insured ? There is no insurance company willing to take the risk of a nuclear accident ! Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: bmolloy To: Biofuel Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 4:24 AM Subject: [Biofuel] How would any of you answer this one? Hi Michael, Re your quote from Herron as follows:snip Our only real sources of useful and practical energy are oil, gas, coal and nuclear. It's true that our oil supply will eventually decrease, but coal is nearly inexhaustible and newer methods of processing it eliminate the smoke and by-products. Nuclear is the energy of the future and must be de-politicized. It will be totally clean, very economical and inexhaustible. In the meantime let's stop hindering our search for oil, including Alaska, off-shore and on federal lands. Firstly, our uses of, and search for sources of energy are limited only by our imagination. Our current love affair with oil and other fossil fuels is but a temporary aberration. Necessity will force us to use of renewables. Wind energy is but one, solar another, tidal energy is at present almost unharnessed, geothermal (just drill a hole in your backyard and keep going down until you reach useable heat - the New Zealanders currently lead the world in geothermal power) equally so. There are many other completely renewable and environmentally supportive means of energy production, but that is not the nub of this post. I wish only to address the statement that nuclear is the energy of the future. Not only is this not the case. Use of this form of power would eventually remove the possibility of any future at all for the human race.As evidence, I offer the following blast from a medical doctor when the Australian government recently toyed with the idea of nuclear power Nuclear Power Isn't Clean; It's Dangerous - and Uneconomic By Dr. Helen Caldicott Among the many departures from the truth by opponents of the Kyoto protocol, one of the most invidious is that nuclear power is "clean" and, therefore, the answer to global warming. However, the cleanliness of nuclear power is nonsense. Not only does it contaminate the planet with long-lived radioactive waste, it significantly contributes to global warming.While it is claimed that there is little or no fossil fuel used in producing nuclear power, the reality is that enormous quantities of fossil fuel are used to mine, mill and enrich the uranium needed to fuel a nuclear power plant, as well as to construct the enormous concrete reactor itself. Indeed, a nuclear power plant must operate for 18 years before producing one net calorie of energy. (During the 1970s the United States deployed seven 1,000-megawatt coal-fired plants to enrich its uranium, and it is still using coal to enrich much of the world's uranium.) So, to recoup the equivalent of the amount of fossil fuel used in preparation and construction before the first switch is thrown to initiate nuclear fission, the plant must operate for almost two decades. But that is not the end of fossil fuel use because disassembling nuclear plants at the end of their 30- to 40-year operating life will require yet more vast quantities of energy. Taking apart, piece by radioactive piece, a nuclear reactor and its surrounding infrastructure is a massive operation: Imagine, for example, the amount of petrol, diesel, and electricity that would be used if the Sydney Opera House were to be dismantled. That's the scale we're talking about. And that is not the end of fossil use because much will also be required for the final transport and longterm storage of nuclear waste generated by every reactor. From a medical perspective, nuclear waste threatens global health. The toxicity of many elements in this radioactive mess is long-lived. Strontium 90, for example, is tasteless, odorless, and invisible and remains radioactive for 600 years. Concentrating in the food chain, it emulates the
RE: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Keep in mind that acceptable risk is not a matter of how many in one million contract a malady, I do not know if it is the same in the US or OZ but we have an epidemic of thyroid problems in the UK. In the 50/60s young people with thyroid disease was extremely rare now I find my local chemist runs out of tablets for treating hyperthyroid most weeks. My local area hospital gets 600 new cases a month. There is a great big wall of silence when people ask what is causing this problem but its definitely not nuclear pollution they say. I think the s--t has already hit the fan and we are not being told about it. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: The Mouse Who Kills Sharks ...]
Greetings Keith, Unfortunately, many North Americans will buy the line: Its feeble defence is they are doing it in deference to Chinese culture ... The Iron Chef, cooking show made such things popular and have leant their credence to such ideas. Bright Blessings, Kim At 05:53 AM 6/5/2005, you wrote: Hi Kim Greetings, While the Disney company has never been lily white in their treatment of animals, [do you remember the lemmings committing suicide?], this is beyond the point that I ever thought they would go. Put Disney and some aspects of Hong Kong together and it's no big surprise. The new Disneyland is on Lantau Island, same place we were. Poor Lantau. And poor sharks indeed. Apex predators, yes. I don't think sharks are something you want to mess with too much, if you want to go on having oceans and fish and so on. Such ancient and successful creatures must account for a lot of different niches in one way or another, take them away and the whole thing might unravel. Not that it's not unravelling already. But as quite a few people have said, sharks aren't cute like dolphins or pandas. I was discussing the shark slaughter by email with some Chinese folks in Hong Kong who told me they won't eat sharkfin soup now and they want it stopped. They pointed me at a website that had a horrific series of colour photographs of smiling fishermen hacking the fins off sharks and throwing them back in the sea to die. But the website vanished, and I didn't have a copy. I wonder if the Wayback machine might have it. I'll try. And this: Its feeble defence is they are doing it in deference to Chinese culture ... That's on old one, that's the excuse the previous colonial British government in Hong Kong used to cover a host of sins. A false sacred cow. Thanks for posting this. Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] media hype...was debunking popular myths
Ms. Simpson, To summarize: my argument is against the hype, not the relative toxicity of plutonium. If your argument was against hype as you claim, you'd take notice of the disproportional hype relative to oral ingestion and the charades of the likes of Cohen and you wouldn't have leant to the hype by overlooking and dismissing the inhalation toxicity issue as you have. Further more, if your argument was/is against the hype as you claim, you wouldn't be using hyped up jargon yourself in any rebut - the same type of hype that the pro-unclear advocates use with such fluidity. So hypothetically, I would guess that much more than half a kilo has already been distributed worldwide. Have you got your share of cancer yet? I don't suppose you've asked yourself what the distribution of plutonium would be from all those releases as a ratio to land mass, surface area or oceanic volume, to discern just how large a role dillution plays in the matter? Almost certainly not. So can all the clatter Ms. Simpson. There's not much room for conclusions on the part of those who read your words. Either your very inexact and un-thorough in your research, your intent is slanted, or you're careless - in this instance meaning that you perhaps have a penchant for both of the latter - not to mention that you choose to resort to hype in an attempt to extract yourself from your ...ehhh ...hemmm oversights. Which would you prefer Ms. Simpson? To walk into an urban environment where a couple of grams were incinerated only a few hours ago or spend a few hours on the Nevada test sites that haven't been active or had above-ground tests for decades? Were hype not your intent, you would have placed Dr. Caldicott's remark in context, rather than trying to unite it in a manner that is not applicable as you do now or mis-associate it in the manner that you originally began.. Again, your argument is rather specious - all together rather hyped. Todd Swearingen lisa simpson wrote: i prefer to think you know better. so give us something real. come on, we're dying here. -chris the point is not the relative toxicity of plutonium, of course it's nasty stuff. The point is that media hype, attributed to a medical professional who should know better, i.e. that half a kilo, evenly dispersed will give everyone on the earth cancer is just hype. More than half a kilo has already been irresponsibly blown into the sky, not everyone has cancer. The not everyone has cancer argument is used by the pro-nuclear factions to somehow support the idea that plutonium isn't a problem, when it obviously is. To summarize: my argument is against the hype, not the relative toxicity of plutonium. ls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pointless bashing.. was robin's solution
Ms. Simpson, These are your original words that you coupled with the fake Robin Williams text: Lisa Simpson wrote: You gotta love Robin Williams... Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan .. what we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message. Please square the perfect plan as you describe it with this remark. Lisa Simpson wrote: [notice I never said anything to support it] It would appear that you either have forgotten your own words and the context in which you placed them, or would prefer to not ackowledge them and then distance yourself from them. It was you who plowed and sewed the field, giving you no legitimate right to bitch about what others have taken notice of. Perhaps you'll choose your seed a little more carefully the next time you plant? Todd Swearingen lisa simpson wrote: The point of posting the robin williams fluff piece was not to extoll it's questionable 'validity' [notice I never said anything to support it] but rather to illustrate the shallow pointlessness of the incessant 'Merican bashing which seems to characterize 'political correctness' among the globalized liberal elite. What seems to have gone completely over the heads of most readers is that both are of the same vein. Failing to grasp that point and retorting with personal accusations only illustrates the point further. One does not further one's position by cutting others down, but rather by showing a better way. What 'you' think of 'me' has nothing to do with an objective discussion of any subject. Try posting something objective without using the word 'you'. ls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as fuel
Hello Balaji, Hello Bill, in spite of having a large supply of natural gas in Argentina, and cheap, there are still many places where thereare no distribution lines. In our case at the North West of the country there is a large availability of biomass, which we would like to consider for gasification: heat for our own chemical processes, for generation of our own consumption of electricity and probably for sales of electricity to the grid, and small units for poor,far located towns. Bill, can you give the name and adress, phone, e-mail, etc. of the company that supplied the biomass gasifier in Alabama? Balaji, can you give names,etc. of other manufacturers of gasifiers? Thank you very much. Marcelino Miranda President QUIMICA NOVA S.A. - Original Message - From: Balaji To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as fuel Hello Bill. If the purpose of gasification is only providing thermal energy for the chicken house with the disposal of chicken manure (and glycerine) as added bonus, the biomass couldbe gasifiedwith a simple updraftgasifier, This will certainly produce more tarsbut these can be burnt in the gaseous state before they condense using wide port burners. However, if you wish to generate electricity using the producer gas from the gasifier to fire turbocharged/naturally aspirated generators, a downdraft gasifier would be indicated. There are issues related to bulk density and moisture content which need to be tackled first. Regards. balaji - Original Message - From: Bill Clark To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:06 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Glycerine as fuel Hi to all, Yesterday I visited a small wood veneer operation using a wood gasification unit to produce steam which heats the veneer driers. They had previously been using LPG as a fuel source. The increase in the price of LPG was threatening to put them out of business. With the help of a grant from the State of Alabama they installed the new biomass gasification unit and paid it off ($500,000.00 USD) in a year and a half. There is another industry here struggling with LPG prices. Chicken growers. These small rural farmers must heat their chicken houses during cool or cold weather. Each house is 60 ft. wide by 200 ft. long. They turn the houses over 6 times per year. Each time a flock is sold, a layer of litter (peanut hulls and chicken waste)must be removed from the floor of the house. While the litter poduced is being used on some farmland (a problem in itself), there is a large glut of chicken litter piled around most of these farms. It is smelly, full of avian pathogens and is a serious leachate problem. There is work being done to utilize this waste as a heat source for these houses. The Alabama Department of Economic and Community Affairs Science, Technology and Energy division (ADECA-STE) is very interested in biomass as energy and has a grant program aimed at agricultural energy efficiency. Questions: Can raw glycerine co-product from a biodiesel operation be effective as a source of syngas in a gasifier? What implications from the soap content? Proposal: Since the removal of the litter from each house is a very dusty operation, utilize raw glycerine co-product as a dust settler on the surface of the litter with the added benefit of increasing the energy content of the biomass. Use the waste biomass as fuel in a wood gasification unit to produce heat for the chicken houses. As some of you know, I am running a wvo to biodiesel project for the City of Eufaula, AL. I produce about 600 gal. of biodiesel per week leaving me with approximately 90 gal. of raw glycerine co-product. While this is not enough to treat the 400 chicken houses in the area, it may be enough to demonstrate this idea on one or two farms. If the addition of raw glycerine to chicken litter is workable, perhaps it could create a reliable use for rawglycerine produced in a larger scale biodiesel plant. The raw glycerine could be sold for perhaps $.50-1.00 per gallon, a nice price that would have an impact on the feasibility of a local biodiesel operation. I am just begining to think this through so any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated. Hoping all is well with each of you, Bill Clark ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to
Re: [Biofuel] pointless bashing.. was robin's solution
I could give you the benefit of the doubt, that it was meant sarcastically. It's the rhetoric that followed that has my attention. MikeAppal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ms. Simpson,These are your original words that you coupled with the fake Robin Williams text:Lisa Simpson wrote: You gotta love Robin Williams... Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan .. what we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.Please square "the perfect plan" as you describe it with this remark.Lisa Simpson wrote: [notice I never said anything to support it]It would appear that you either have forgotten your own words and the context in which you placed them, or would prefer to not ackowledge them and then distance yourself from them.It was you who plowed and sewed the field, giving you no legitimate right to bitch about what others have taken notice of.Perhaps you'll choose your seed a little more carefully the next time you plant?Todd Swearingenlisa simpson wrote:The point of posting the "robin williams" fluff piecewas not to extoll it's questionable 'validity' [noticeI never said anything to support it] but rather toillustrate the shallow pointlessness of the incessant'Merican bashing which seems to characterize'political correctness' among the globalized liberalelite. What seems to have gone completely over theheads of most readers is that both are of the samevein. Failing to grasp that point and retorting withpersonal accusations only illustrates the pointfurther. One does not further one's position bycutting others down, but rather by showing a betterway.What 'you' think of 'me' has nothing to do with anobjective discussion of any subject. Try postingsomething objective without using the word 'you'.ls__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Article of Intrest to Group - New Green Diesel?
Check out this interesting article on a New Green Diesel process announced Saturday by the University of Wisconsin. Not too many details but very intriguing - I thought at least. http://www.physorg.com/news4392.html -Matt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
That'swhat's so great about these forums.Responsesoften includepreviouscontributions, so that there is little ambiguity about context and little opportunity formisrepresentation.
It's all here Terry -- especially theremarks aboutyour hope that thosedrug dealers and thieves becomeconvinced to join the military ("improving their lives") instead of victimizing you and your neighbors. I was thinking of "them" as just poor until youtriedclearing things up for me.
MikeTerry DeSimone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not exactly sure what you're trying to read into this or where you're trying to take it,but if this is the way you feel,this is the way you feel.
Regards,
TerryMichael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
"If your going to sling red herring and strawmen, at least aim for the fireplace where they can both be appropriately toasted." OK -- that was pretty cool Todd.Somebody wrote: "They could be in your neighborhood selling drugs,robbing and stealing,that would be much easier than making a commitment to improving their lives."Let me understand this. If such a large portion of "them" are in the military and "they" would otherwise be "in your neighborhood selling drugs,robbing and stealing" in significant numbers (if I understand you correctly), then we have an army of drug dealers and thieves.Apparently,this immoral minority also likes to torture prisoners when in the right environment. Although,wait a minute, the ones on trial are whitemust be a fluke.
Anyway,the bigots and xenophobes in this group seem to be interested in formulating a final solution to kick "them" out, keep "them" out, or otherwise send "them" away. This reminds me of a little town inGermany called Potsdam where similar discussions took place.
Mike
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 6/5/05 5:05:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They could be in your neighborhood selling drugs,robbing and stealing,that would be much easier than making a commitment to improving their lives. oh my, terry. enough with the ad hominim. the fact that these individuals enlist is a pretty good indication that, were they to remain in civilian life, they would *not* be so engaged. which is all the greater shame, for if more effort were made to help them help themselves. . . .-chris___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list
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Re: [Biofuel] Bug Power
Hi Robert Keith Addison wrote: Could the resulting, simpler sugars also be worked on by yeast to produce fuel ethanol? Yes. That was, in fact, the intent of the research. I believe I may have left out a step, as enzymatic treatment appears necessary. (I shouldn't be quoting without verifying facts, right?) Here's a link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=pubmed; dopt=Abstractlist_uids=15930586itool=iconabstrquery_hl=2 Thankyou. Interesting. It uses a lot of ammonia. Do you get it back for re-use? It doesn't say anything about pressure, only heat. That's encouraging, if I've got it right (pressure is discouraging, IMHO). Do you have the complete paper? Gosh! I'm awed! Nice to read, thanks! You're welcome, but why be awed? I'd written nothing you wouldn't find in a good high school level biology text. You might Robert, but I wouldn't, or at least I didn't. I didn't encounter anything like that in school (primitive). I've learnt quite a lot of biology since, or how to apply it anyway, but this was clearly put, I learnt something more, thankyou. Robert for King! One of us had better stop before I get a swelled head . . . :-) It shall be as you decree Sire. Regards Keith robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Wash Water to Biodiesel Ratio?
A question for all you well-washed biodiesel homebrewers... Regardless of your particular washing methods, when all is said and done, how much total fresh water have you used for washing, per liter of fully washed biodiesel? FWIW, my ratio is about 1.3 water:biodiesel. Is that high, low, average? -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
Todd, Interesting. It does not seam to be anymore than the white washing that was done several years ago, just more along the lines of a few recruiters, being more extreme. OTOH, I didn't hear of any reciting problems while I was in the service. I was a bit of a problem for my recruiter, having been stupid when I was younger I had 1 mistermeaner to my record, but, between the recruiter and my self, we filled out the necessary paperwork, and it went through the proper channels. Of the few issues I heard about, it wasn't the recruiters fault. One was a rare form of color blindness, that the MD's at the processing station didn't pick up. The other was where the Army sent the recruit after the in-processing, ***after the recruiter made the promise of the MOS the recruit was to enter***.It turned out the recruit had everything in writing and proper forms, but, someone doing the processing decided to send him someplace else. Well it wasn't until some 2 months after the end of basic training that the army decided that neither the recruiter nor the recite was at fault, but once basic training was over they had to do something with him, so they made him the battalion gofer. Because the recruit had the proper forms and the MOS guarantee from the recruiter, the military gave him a few choices: 1)Stay in the current MOS that he was assigned to ( it would be treated as a re-up with bonuses that would bring - in addition to the bonuses from enlisting in the first place ). 2)Wait up to 6 months for a open slot in the MOS that he was guaranteed in the first place. 3)Allowed to leave the service as if he had finished his enlistment in a satisfactory manor. He decided on #1 and said it was the best 6 years he had. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:41 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang Greg, could you elaborate on deceptive, predatory and intimidating? Are you seeking dictionary definitions or a contextual one relative to recruiting tactics? You've never been present on a college campus with a ROTC contingent or had a family member who once aspired to be a Marine recruiter? Both are quite memorable experiences. Did you miss the paltry one day stand-down for Army recruiters on May 20 this year (only two weeks ago) to re-evaluate their recruiting practices? The liberal press boiled with stories on that one for a few days. Not that anything's changed now that they've moved on. Based upon your personal military experience(s) and opinions relative to most things military as you've expressed them on-list, I'm more more inclined to let you take a look at other sources beyond my own disposition or experience(s) on the matter. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4648540 http://www.polytechnic.org/faculty/gfeldmeth/recruiter.html And that's just a few of the recent documented cases. And then there's always the re-up tactics http://ventura.fordean.org/ventura/blog/2004/09/new-army-recruiting-tactics-revealed.html Surely you're not ready to go round-robin on this one are you Greg? Many of the practices of recruitment are not only legend, but vividly and insultingly real. Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with someone joining any branch of service. The only problem I have is with those who manipulate others. About the only tactic that military recruiters haven't tried (at least physically, to my knowledge) is the impressment of citizens into service. But that doesn't mean that impressment is not a tactic at levels other than physical (see the re-up link above). Todd Swearingen Greg Harbican wrote: Todd, could you elaborate on deceptive, predatory and intimidating ? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 09:31 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang Larry, Military recruitment/recruiters are as much a part of the problem as are the policy makers. All one has to do is look at the deceptive, predatory and intimidating practices of recruitment to gain insight as to the manipulative mentality that must be well guarded against in all ranks/levels of a theoretically free society. Until recruitment practices across the board are void of manipulation, they are as much fair game for protest as is anyone or any segment of any institution that also manipulates, preys upon and deceives a nation's citizenry. Let those who wish to serve enter into service under no illusions, not under fog of promise or incomplete and/or inaccurate premise(s). Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Wash Water to Biodiesel Ratio?
Ken Provost wrote: A question for all you well-washed biodiesel homebrewers... Regardless of your particular washing methods, when all is said and done, how much total fresh water have you used for washing, per liter of fully washed biodiesel? FWIW, my ratio is about 1.3 water:biodiesel. Is that high, low, average? -K In my experience, it seems really low. I've been adding water with a mister, to approximately equal the amount of BD to be washed, then use bubble wash. Drain, repeat. The number of times I repeat it, determined by the clarity of the drained wash water has been at a minimum of four, and as many as 7. Too much NaOH in my formula, perhaps? Thankfully, I have a good supply of water at my disposal, and making it available to the process is dependent on electricity to pump it from my own well... So at least I'm not pouring this much water into the system from a metered city-water supply. Any hints out there that will help me to clear my BD of soaps more economically will be very appreciated! doug swanson ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
No, up till 9/11 most people entered the military for one of two reasons. The first and most popular reason is Education. They think that it will be an easy way the get an education, without having to work hard to get a scholarship or the need for a loan. The second reason, is that they want money forsomething and they currently don't haveenough. I have heard some of their complaints, and almost always it's along the lines of " When I signed up almost ___ yrs ago, there wasn't any war. I did it because I wanted to get'an education'or 'the education benefit's or 'to get a job and skills for a job when I get out', not to kill people or get killed". Many of themthink that they are using the military, for their own purposes/benefit, but, then when they are told that they can not get out when the going gets rough, they cry"Not fair!" The facts are: *The militaryis just like any other company trying to get you to join, in that it is going to push the fun exciting stuff, while under emphasizing the bad. *Anyone that thinks they can join the military and be subject to the possibility of being killed or having to kill, is living a dream that has no connection to reality. *Anyone that thinks thatthe military can't or will not alter their terms of enlistment in a time of crisis isdreaming. *Anyone that does not read the fine print on any contractbefore theysign, is a fool. *All it takes issome checking, to find out what being in the military is really like. There are to many people in (and now out )of the military to say what it was like. Any person, in anyjob,that think that they can take the good and leave the bad, has another think coming. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:44 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang "To enter military service and then say, I dont want to go there! orI don't want to do that! is simply childish selfcenterdness (sp)." Well Larry, if that were true, we would have an increasing number of "self centered objectors" instead of conscientious objectors. Most people who join the military, do so with a belief (faith) that their commander-in-chief will make the right decisions. When they don't, it is no exaggeration to look at it as a breach of contract. You have every right to object to improper use of the military (that would be YOU, if you are a soldier) due to the fact that your government did not work with you in good faith. Conscientious objectors are oftenexamples of fearless objectivity and heroism. They seewar during their time asa divisive instrument of policy and not a mechanism for self defense. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
It's true, if you have the qualification for it and get a MOS guarantee. It's simple you get the guarantee and you read the fine print, before you sign on the dotted line. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hans Reuchlin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 14:15 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang "Hey, you too can join the Army, and become a musician...", and other lies that recruitement officers are resorting to in order to fill the quotas.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
Check out the UCMJ ( Uniform Code of Military Justice ). Then follow that up with Geneva Convention and Hague Convention, and that will give you a good idea of what illegal is to the military. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 14:22 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang Robert, This IMHO, this is another simplification. Aside from refusing to obey an illegal order, can you think of any exceptions?What's illegal? Mike robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: Robert, "...he or she becomes the property of the military and the commanders will do with every soldier whatever they deem necessary. " Point taken. But I think it's a bit oversimplified.Is it really? Can an army function without discipline? When the lieutenant says: "We have orders to secure that hilltop and neutralize enemy resistance," does an enlisted soldier have the right to disagree?My wife has a young cousin who joined the Marines a few years ago. Much to his dismay, and his family's distress, the Marine Corps sent him to Fallujah. He tells us that he didn't want to go there. He speaks of the situation being horrible and of his life being in constant danger. But he couldn't say: "No thanks. I'd rather serve in Guam." Do you mean to say that you (as property of the US armed services) would do "WHATEVER" your superior deemed necessary? That's quite a broad statement.Aside from refusing to obey an illegal order, can you think of any exceptions?robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Wash Water to Biodiesel Ratio?
A question for all you well-washed biodiesel homebrewers... Regardless of your particular washing methods, when all is said and done, how much total fresh water have you used for washing, per liter of fully washed biodiesel? FWIW, my ratio is about 1.3 water:biodiesel. Is that high, low, average? -K Same with us Ken, about 1:3 water:biodiesel. Three washes, with 1/3rd water v/v biodiesel, and the washwater reused in the next batch of biodiesel, so each batch of washwater is used three times. Whether bubbled or stirred. We don't produce that much. Tick-over rate is about 120 litres a month, that's only 10 litres of washwater per week to dispose of, and it's innocuous anyway. Actually it's always more than tick-over, sometimes a lot more. We give quite a lot away for promotion, and we're right into the barter economy here, it's great for bartering (which also helps to promote it). At the moment I'm producing extra to run a diesel generator for a five-day summer festival at Kyoto University this month. Still, it's never enough for washwater disposal to be a problem. If it were we'd use Todd's method of applying it to the land. Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
Greg, *The military is just like any other company trying to get you to join, in that it is going to push the fun exciting stuff, while under emphasizing the bad. The military does far more than just push the fun exciting stuff... to net recruits. I guess you didn't read the references that were provided previously and didn't do any searching beyond them on your own? So is that high-gloss varnish or semi-gloss that you're using there? And are you sure you've got enough ventilation in that room? Todd Swearingen Greg Harbican wrote: No, up till 9/11 most people entered the military for one of two reasons. The first and most popular reason is Education. They think that it will be an easy way the get an education, without having to work hard to get a scholarship or the need for a loan. The second reason, is that they want money for something and they currently don't have enough. I have heard some of their complaints, and almost always it's along the lines of When I signed up almost ___ yrs ago, there wasn't any war.I did it because I wanted to get 'an education' or 'the education benefit's or 'to get a job and skills for a job when I get out', not to kill people or get killed. Many of them think that they are using the military, for their own purposes/benefit, but, then when they are told that they can not get out when the going gets rough, they cry Not fair! The facts are: *The military is just like any other company trying to get you to join, in that it is going to push the fun exciting stuff, while under emphasizing the bad. *Anyone that thinks they can join the military and be subject to the possibility of being killed or having to kill, is living a dream that has no connection to reality. *Anyone that thinks that the military can't or will not alter their terms of enlistment in a time of crisis is dreaming. *Anyone that does not read the fine print on any contract before they sign, is a fool. *All it takes is some checking, to find out what being in the military is really like.There are to many people in ( and now out ) of the military to say what it was like. Any person, in any job, that think that they can take the good and leave the bad, has another think coming. Greg H. - Original Message - *From:* Michael Redler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Friday, June 03, 2005 12:44 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang To enter military service and then say, I dont want to go there! or I don't want to do that! is simply childish selfcenterdness (sp). Well Larry, if that were true, we would have an increasing number of self centered objectors instead of conscientious objectors. Most people who join the military, do so with a belief (faith) that their commander-in-chief will make the right decisions. When they don't, it is no exaggeration to look at it as a breach of contract. You have every right to object to improper use of the military (that would be YOU, if you are a soldier) due to the fact that your government did not work with you in good faith. Conscientious objectors are often examples of fearless objectivity and heroism. They see war during their time as a divisive instrument of policy and not a mechanism for self defense. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
"...when they are told that they can not get out when the going gets rough, they cry"Not fair!" How about... ...when they are told that they can not get out when the president: 1.) abuses the war powers act 2.) provokes attacksto manufacture an excuse for war months before any security council resolution is drafted 3.) Bribes a "coalition of the willing" when most of the free world isn't fooled 4.)Coerces government agencies to manufacture evidence to justify an illegal war 5.) Limits inspectors (mostly chemical weapons inspectors) from entering Iraq and works toward the dismissal of the most vocal analysts reporting that there are noWMD's and you realize that your purpose in the militaryhas changed from that of defender, to that ofconqueror. ...they cry"Not fair!" Mike Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, up till 9/11 most people entered the military for one of two reasons. The first and most popular reason is Education. They think that it will be an easy way the get an education, without having to work hard to get a scholarship or the need for a loan. The second reason, is that they want money forsomething and they currently don't haveenough. I have heard some of their complaints, and almost always it's along the lines of " When I signed up almost ___ yrs ago, there wasn't any war. I did it because I wanted to get'an education'or 'the education benefit's or 'to get a job and skills for a job when I get out', not to kill people or get killed". Many of themthink that they are using the military, for their own purposes/benefit, but, then when they are told that they can not get out when the going gets rough, they cry"Not fair!" The facts are: *The militaryis just like any other company trying to get you to join, in that it is going to push the fun exciting stuff, while under emphasizing the bad. *Anyone that thinks they can join the military and be subject to the possibility of being killed or having to kill, is living a dream that has no connection to reality. *Anyone that thinks thatthe military can't or will not alter their terms of enlistment in a time of crisis isdreaming. *Anyone that does not read the fine print on any contractbefore theysign, is a fool. *All it takes issome checking, to find out what being in the military is really like. There are to many people in (and now out )of the military to say what it was like. Any person, in anyjob,that think that they can take the good and leave the bad, has another think coming. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:44 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang "To enter military service and then say, I dont want to go there! orI don't want to do that! is simply childish selfcenterdness (sp)." Well Larry, if that were true, we would have an increasing number of "self centered objectors" instead of conscientious objectors. Most people who join the military, do so with a belief (faith) that their commander-in-chief will make the right decisions. When they don't, it is no exaggeration to look at it as a breach of contract. You have every right to object to improper use of the military (that would be YOU, if you are a soldier) due to the fact that your government did not work with you in good faith. Conscientious objectors are oftenexamples of fearless objectivity and heroism. They seewar during their time asa divisive instrument of policy and not a mechanism for self defense. Mike ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
Check out the UCMJ ( Uniform Code of Military Justice ). Then follow that up with Geneva Convention and Hague Convention, and that will give you a good idea of what illegal is to the military. Greg H. The US military honours the Geneva Convention? When they feel like it maybe... http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVFb=79532 Memorandum on the Geneva Conventions - Center for American Progress Tossing Aside the Geneva Conventions, Bush Decisions Place U.S. Troops in Greater Danger ... 'When you say something down the chain of command like, 'The Geneva conventions don't apply,' that sets the stage for the kind of chaos that we've seen,' said Rear Admiral John Hutson (ret.), who was the Navy Judge Advocate General from 1997 to 2000. http://talkleft.com/new_archives/008443.html Bush Flip-Flops on Geneva Convention Protections http://baltimorechronicle.com/geneva_feb02.shtml U.S. Violates Geneva Conventions Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Michael Redler To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 14:22 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang Robert, This IMHO, this is another simplification. Aside from refusing to obey an illegal order, can you think of any exceptions? What's illegal? Mike robert luis rabello mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: Robert, ...he or she becomes the property of the military and the commanders will do with every soldier whatever they deem necessary. Point taken. But I think it's a bit oversimplified. Is it really? Can an army function without discipline? When the lieutenant says: We have orders to secure that hilltop and neutralize enemy resistance, does an enlisted soldier have the right to disagree? My wife has a young cousin who joined the Marines a few years ago. Much to his dismay, and his family's distress, the Marine Corps sent him to Fallujah. He tells us that he didn't want to go there. He speaks of the situation being horrible and of his life being in constant danger. But he couldn't say: No thanks. I'd rather serve in Guam. Do you mean to say that you (as property of the US armed services) would do WHATEVER your superior deemed necessary? That's quite a broad statement. Aside from refusing to obey an illegal order, can you think of any exceptions? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] -=additives=-
it's a liquid you add to boiler fuel to make it more efficient and burn cleaner. I'm trying to find a more detailed chemical description of it, but for now, if anybody out there is using it, or uses it on anything else, it would be nice to start a conversation On 6/3/05, ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the world is in Boiler fuel additive? Also, my friend has been using 'Boiler fuel additive' that he gets for free in his SVO converted mercedes... thinks it's useful, says he notices it running better, but I was wondering if anyone else out there is using it for vehicle or home-heating use? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
Greg, Well said! Larry On 6/6/05, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, up till 9/11 most people entered the military for one of two reasons. The first and most popular reason is Education. They think that it will be an easy way the get an education, without having to work hard to get a scholarship or the need for a loan. The second reason, is that they want money for something and they currently don't have enough. I have heard some of their complaints, and almost always it's along the lines of When I signed up almost ___ yrs ago, there wasn't any war. I did it because I wanted to get 'an education' or 'the education benefit's or 'to get a job and skills for a job when I get out', not to kill people or get killed. Many of them think that they are using the military, for their own purposes/benefit, but, then when they are told that they can not get out when the going gets rough, they cry Not fair! The facts are: *The military is just like any other company trying to get you to join, in that it is going to push the fun exciting stuff, while under emphasizing the bad. *Anyone that thinks they can join the military and be subject to the possibility of being killed or having to kill, is living a dream that has no connection to reality. *Anyone that thinks that the military can't or will not alter their terms of enlistment in a time of crisis is dreaming. *Anyone that does not read the fine print on any contract before they sign, is a fool. *All it takes is some checking, to find out what being in the military is really like.There are to many people in ( and now out ) of the military to say what it was like. Any person, in any job, that think that they can take the good and leave the bad, has another think coming. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:44 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang To enter military service and then say, I dont want to go there! or I don't want to do that! is simply childish selfcenterdness (sp). Well Larry, if that were true, we would have an increasing number of self centered objectors instead of conscientious objectors. Most people who join the military, do so with a belief (faith) that their commander-in-chief will make the right decisions. When they don't, it is no exaggeration to look at it as a breach of contract. You have every right to object to improper use of the military (that would be YOU, if you are a soldier) due to the fact that your government did not work with you in good faith. Conscientious objectors are often examples of fearless objectivity and heroism. They see war during their time as a divisive instrument of policy and not a mechanism for self defense. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
Thanks Greg. That's kinda what I was getting at. MikeGreg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out the UCMJ ( Uniform Code of Military Justice ). Then follow that up with Geneva Convention and Hague Convention, and that will give you a good idea of what illegal is to the military. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 14:22 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang Robert, This IMHO, this is another simplification. Aside from refusing to obey an illegal order, can you think of any exceptions?What's illegal? Mike robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: Robert, "...he or she becomes the property of the military and the commanders will do with every soldier whatever they deem necessary. " Point taken. But I think it's a bit oversimplified.Is it really? Can an army function without discipline? When the lieutenant says: "We have orders to secure that hilltop and neutralize enemy resistance," does an enlisted soldier have the right to disagree?My wife has a young cousin who joined the Marines a few years ago. Much to his dismay, and his family's distress, the Marine Corps sent him to Fallujah. He tells us that he didn't want to go there. He speaks of the situation being horrible and of his life being in constant danger. But he couldn't say: "No thanks. I'd rather serve in Guam." Do you mean to say that you (as property of the US armed services) would do "WHATEVER" your superior deemed necessary? That's quite a broad statement.Aside from refusing to obey an illegal order, can you think of any exceptions?robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Wash Water to Biodiesel Ratio?
On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:24 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Same with us Ken, about 1:3 water:biodiesel. Three washes, with 1/3rd water v/v biodiesel, and the washwater reused in the next batch of biodiesel, so each batch of washwater is used three times. I realized after sending the post that my ratio was ambiguously stated, with a decimal point easily mistaken for a colon. I actually use 1.28 liters of wash water per liter of final biodiesel, which is much more than your usage (tho apparently less than others' :-)). The breakdown is 0.16 in a glyc/water wash, 0.80 in a bulk stirred wash, and 0.32 in a single bubble wash. If I reused my water as you do (I'll try it!) I would approach your efficiency. Thanks for the replies, all -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as fuel
Hello Marcelino, - Original Message - From: Quimica Nova SA To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as fuel Hello Balaji, Hello Bill, in spite of having a large supply of natural gas in Argentina, and cheap, there are still many places where thereare no distribution lines. In our case at the North West of the country there is a large availability of biomass, which we would like to consider for gasification: heat for our own chemical processes, for generation of our own consumption of electricity and probably for sales of electricity to the grid, and small units for poor,far located towns. Excelllent idea. See my earlier post. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg40222.html All the applications you mention have been estabished in India with indigenous technology from Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India. We have installed a 1100 kg/hr gasifier using adual fuel burner burning Heavy Furnace Oil or Producer Gas ora combination of both to provide process heat for a Hydrofluoric Acid Plant. We have recently comissioned a 650 kWe captive power plant in a dairy unit near Chennai, Tamil Nadu, using 100% gas engines from Cummins India, and we have two grid connected systems - a 200 kWe vilage electrification project funded by UNDP and a 1250kWe Power Plant wheeling the power over the State Utility grid to its sister unit300 km away.Most of the above units use Prosopsis Juliflora, for which many thanks, since it is an import from South America. LOL. I am part of a group engaged in the manufacture of gasifiers from 20 kg/hr to 2000 kg/hr capacity for both thermal energy and power generation One of our20 kWe dual fuel gasifer plants has been operating in Butachaques Island in Chile servicing the needs of a remote indigenus community and another 20 kWe system has been functioningat the University of Sao Paulo, Brazil. Bill, can you give the name and adress, phone, e-mail, etc. of the company that supplied the biomass gasifier in Alabama? Balaji, can you give names,etc. of other manufacturers of gasifiers? Thank you very much. Marcelino Miranda President QUIMICA NOVA S.A Regards, balaji Energreen Power Limited, New Address: No. 2,3rd Street, Nandanam Extension, Chennai - 600 035 Telefax : 91(44) 2432 1339, 2432 2499 e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
sorry terry, but no. you are not addressing my observations in good faith. As you imply,there are those who would make it in or out. this is your one comment which is relatively faithful to my meaning. only, it seeks to downplay the fact that *most* who enlist make it through the military, hopefully none the worse for wear and usncarred by war. and i was not implying that they would make it in civilian society. i said: the fact that these individuals enlist is a pretty good indication that, were they to remain in civilian life, they would *not* be. . .engaged [in selling drugs,robbing and stealing in my neighborhood] does *not* selling drugs [etc.] constitute 'making it'? not necessarily. they could still be arrested for driving/walking while black; beaten and sodomized by the arresting officers; condemned by a justice system which is at best indifferent, and at worst genocidally racist, to an unduly harsh mandatory minimum sentence--a truly horrible fate when you consider that they might be beaten or sodomized or killed by their fellow inmates; or the fact, almost ignored by our 'liberal media', that abu ghreib-style 'abuse' of prison inmates has become widespread in american jails; or the fact that now they will not only have to survive in our society as a poor minority, but as a poor minority ex-con; and above all, in light of all this, when you consider the fact that, if you're hispanic or, especially, black, the odds are far greater than for any other group that you didn't actually commit the crime. of cousrse, they might not make it that far, because a trigger-happy policeman might just decide to shoot them on the spot. or they could be killed by a stray gangbanger's bullet, or in a drive-by because the gangbangers mistook them for someone else. or, they could somehow weave their way through this minefield, and live in poverty; as most african-americans and many, if not most, hispanics/hispanic-americans still do. there are a fair number of poor whites who also enlist. while the deck is not so severely stacked against them socio-economically, crime and drugs and gangs do exist in poor white areas, and the fact remains that most poor whites are born into poverty, and will never rise out of poverty. which, again, is why so many enlist. but what if we offered them an alternative? what if we told them you can join the army/navy/air force/marines and earn so much per month for so many years, as well as college tuition, and perhaps also learn a trade or acquire job skills which will be meaningful in civilian life; as well as, of course, risk being killed or maimed, and/or psychologically scarred for the rest of your life. . .OR. . .you could earn the two thirds as much salary and tuition credits, with the same potential for learning opportunities, in a heirarchical organization structured similarly to the military, all while staying in or near your home area as part of an economical development project. sort of a modern day wpa; an anti-poverty brigade, if you like. how many potential enlistees would choose the second alternative? what if we offered only three-quarters as much financial compensation? how many then? or 100% as much? -chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
no, greg, the military is not just any other company. although it is sort of like some companies, except that those mercenaries are *extremely* well compensated and, at least in practice, pretty much outside the law, military or civil. the armed forces are an organ of the government charged with defending the country. cheap, deceptive sales tactics when asking one to potentially make 'the ultimate sacrifice' for their country, are nothing short of unethical, immoral and unacceptable, if not criminal. -chris In a message dated 6/6/05 10:15:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, up till 9/11 most people entered the military for one of two reasons. The first and most popular reason is Education. They think that it will be an easy way the get an education, without having to work hard to get a scholarship or the need for a loan. The second reason, is that they want money for something and they currently don't have enough. I have heard some of their complaints, and almost always it's along the lines of When I signed up almost ___ yrs ago, there wasn't any war.I did it because I wanted to get 'an education' or 'the education benefit's or 'to get a job and skills for a job when I get out', not to kill people or get killed. Many of them think that they are using the military, for their own purposes/benefit, but, then when they are told that they can not get out when the going gets rough, they cry Not fair! The facts are: *The military is just like any other company trying to get you to join, in that it is going to push the fun exciting stuff, while under emphasizing the bad. *Anyone that thinks they can join the military and be subject to the possibility of being killed or having to kill, is living a dream that has no connection to reality. *Anyone that thinks that the military can't or will not alter their terms of enlistment in a time of crisis is dreaming. *Anyone that does not read the fine print on any contract before they sign, is a fool. *All it takes is some checking, to find out what being in the military is really like.There are to many people in ( and now out ) of the military to say what it was like. Any person, in any job, that think that they can take the good and leave the bad, has another think coming. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bug Power
Keith Addison wrote: Thankyou. Interesting. It uses a lot of ammonia. Do you get it back for re-use? Yes. Once the ball valve opens, the vaporized ammonia flashes into another container where it is condensed for re-use. It doesn't say anything about pressure, only heat. That's encouraging, if I've got it right (pressure is discouraging, IMHO). Adding heat increases pressure, so it has to be done in a pressure vessel of some sort. There was an ammonia based refrigeration unit powered by an off axis solar tracker in Home Power magazine many years ago. It produced pressure in excess of 100 psi (I think. . . Oh, where ARE those brain cells???) during its operation, and I thought it would make an excellent unit for the AFEX process. Combined, it could produce ice and subsequent to enzymatic treatment, feedstock for fermentation and ethanol fuel. Do you have the complete paper? Yes, there are two papers buried somewhere in my files. They were rather poor quality photocopies given to me by Roy McAlister of the American Hydrogen Association. That seems like a lifetime ago already. (Any time before I had children seems like a lifetime ago!) You might Robert, but I wouldn't, or at least I didn't. I didn't encounter anything like that in school (primitive). I've learnt quite a lot of biology since, or how to apply it anyway, but this was clearly put, I learnt something more, thankyou. You're welcome, Keith. I'm glad to contribute something of substance now and then. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Rapeseed Biodiesel
Dear All, I read the owner's manual of my car whose engine is a Direct Injection Intercooled Turbo Diesel and found out that biodiesel fuel made of rapeseed is not allowed to be used. Does anybody knows the reason? Regards, Purbo J. W. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Bug Power
The best way to reduce pressures in the reboilers and degasser is to use sulfuric acid. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of robert luis rabello Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 7:59 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bug Power Keith Addison wrote: Thankyou. Interesting. It uses a lot of ammonia. Do you get it back for re-use? Yes. Once the ball valve opens, the vaporized ammonia flashes into another container where it is condensed for re-use. It doesn't say anything about pressure, only heat. That's encouraging, if I've got it right (pressure is discouraging, IMHO). Adding heat increases pressure, so it has to be done in a pressure vessel of some sort. There was an ammonia based refrigeration unit powered by an off axis solar tracker in Home Power magazine many years ago. It produced pressure in excess of 100 psi (I think. . . Oh, where ARE those brain cells???) during its operation, and I thought it would make an excellent unit for the AFEX process. Combined, it could produce ice and subsequent to enzymatic treatment, feedstock for fermentation and ethanol fuel. Do you have the complete paper? Yes, there are two papers buried somewhere in my files. They were rather poor quality photocopies given to me by Roy McAlister of the American Hydrogen Association. That seems like a lifetime ago already. (Any time before I had children seems like a lifetime ago!) You might Robert, but I wouldn't, or at least I didn't. I didn't encounter anything like that in school (primitive). I've learnt quite a lot of biology since, or how to apply it anyway, but this was clearly put, I learnt something more, thankyou. You're welcome, Keith. I'm glad to contribute something of substance now and then. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.4 - Release Date: 6/6/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bug Power
robert luis rabello wrote: Keith Addison wrote: snip There was an ammonia based refrigeration unit powered by an off axis solar tracker in Home Power magazine many years ago. It produced pressure in excess of 100 psi (I think. . . Oh, where ARE those brain cells???) during its operation, and I thought it would make an excellent unit for the AFEX process. Combined, it could produce ice and subsequent to enzymatic treatment, feedstock for fermentation and ethanol fuel. I've found that page in the past, and saved a pdf file of it. Uploaded it to: http://databrook.com/users/dcs3400/solarice.pdf I believe it is what you are referring to. doug swanson ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bug Power
des wrote: I've found that page in the past, and saved a pdf file of it. Uploaded it to: http://databrook.com/users/dcs3400/solarice.pdf I believe it is what you are referring to. Yes, that's the ammonia absorption ice making unit. Thanks! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Reprocessing the odds and ends
Hi All, I'm new to the group and have really enjoyed reading the postings. I have been taking everything that had a little biodiesel in it and pouring it into a 55 gallon drum. All those little odds and ends of biodiesel and water/soap and mini batches are starting to add up. I have roughly 35 gallons of biodeisel that I can put into my storage tank. I figure that I can dewater (boil) it and reprocess it to make sure that it is good biodiesel. My question is how much methanol and lye should I use to reprocess this bioDand what are the coniquenses of using toomuch or too little catalyst? It actually doesn't look too bad but I would feel better if it was reprocessed. Thanks Richard Keith Kentucky ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New List
I could use some design photos and diagrams. I am trying to set up a fuel plant that will make 1000 gal per day from saw dust. How about the grant? How does that work? Any input much needed. Thanks, ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi ron, I built a 10 inch stripper column in 1990 I then moved a 24 inch rectifier from a local oil refinary a ran for a while, selling my wet ethanol to a local ethanol plant for upgrading to anhydrous, but then we got a new govener who took away our state subsidies and my plant turned to scrapiron, at the time I was selling wet feed, and feeding 800 hogs, the stripper and condenser rusted away so I cut it up. now I am in the pickeled quail egg business and I need to startup my feed mill and install a pellet press so I can enlarge my quail operation. 30 gallons of ethanol makes 1000 pounds of complete feed when the distillers grains 33% of the ration, so they kinda go together, for now I will use my 1000 gallon pot still to produce 75 gallon per day, I am currently applying to USDA for a 49000 grant, to operate this plant, I will produce anhydrous by using anhydrous lime, then using the lime as the calcium supplement for my feed. I also am buliding a pervaporation system using PVA and chitosan sorry, its hard to keep it short, 27 years of research From: ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/05/28 Sat PM 02:57:28 EDT To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New List Me too Fred, How did you come with 30 gal/hr? I have done small time batch plants but yours is no batch plant. How do you do it? Is the Gov any help? Are there grants for bio diesel? So many questions and so little bandwidth!!! Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just letting everyone know I am still here, Still trying to complete my 30 gallon per hour farm anhydrous ethanol/ plant feed mill, I recently applied for the USDA/ DOE Grant, but there were 680 applications, I finally hired an engineer to put my package together. I have a very good 50 page plan, The seceret to making smallscale ethanol work is to produce a complete feed with the distillers grains. Thanks for being here. Fred ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bug Power
Keith Addison wrote: Thankyou. Interesting. It uses a lot of ammonia. Do you get it back for re-use? Yes. Once the ball valve opens, the vaporized ammonia flashes into another container where it is condensed for re-use. Does that mean you could just pee in it? LOL! Well, at least it's a sustainable and renewable source. If you go out trying to buy loads of ammonia isn't there a fair chance you might end up in Gitmo? It doesn't say anything about pressure, only heat. That's encouraging, if I've got it right (pressure is discouraging, IMHO). Adding heat increases pressure, so it has to be done in a pressure vessel of some sort. That's okay, but I stop somewhere short of pressure pumps and vacuum pumps. There was an ammonia based refrigeration unit powered by an off axis solar tracker in Home Power magazine many years ago. We had one of those at our farm in Wiltshire years ago, we wondered why everyone didn't have one. It didn't have a solar access tracker, but it didn't use much power, and it was quiet. It produced pressure in excess of 100 psi (I think. . . Oh, where ARE those brain cells???) during its operation, and I thought it would make an excellent unit for the AFEX process. Combined, it could produce ice and subsequent to enzymatic treatment, feedstock for fermentation and ethanol fuel. I think you're onto something Robert. This all sounds doable, sort of, and AFAIK, short of industrial megabucks or nonavailable tailored bugs the only other doable way of crunching cellulose into ethanol is with sulphuric acid, which seems crude by comparison. Do you have the complete paper? Yes, there are two papers buried somewhere in my files. Ah. Hm. I also have paper files still, quite a few of them, anything that's in there is pretty much buried, and no Google. You can't grep dead trees. They were rather poor quality photocopies given to me by Roy McAlister of the American Hydrogen Association. If you do unearth them eventually, if you send me the citations I might be able to get hold of better copies we could use. The paper you linked is dated Appl Biochem Biotechnol. 2005 Spring: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=pubmedd opt=Abstractlist_uids=15930586itool=iconabstrquery_hl=2 Pretreatment of Switchgrass by Ammonia Fiber Explosion (AFEX) Would a full copy be helpful? That seems like a lifetime ago already. (Any time before I had children seems like a lifetime ago!) :-) You might Robert, but I wouldn't, or at least I didn't. I didn't encounter anything like that in school (primitive). I've learnt quite a lot of biology since, or how to apply it anyway, but this was clearly put, I learnt something more, thankyou. You're welcome, Keith. I'm glad to contribute something of substance now and then. Thanks again Robert. Keith robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
Hello Chris sorry terry, but no. you are not addressing my observations in good faith. As you imply,there are those who would make it in or out. this is your one comment which is relatively faithful to my meaning. only, it seeks to downplay the fact that *most* who enlist make it through the military, hopefully none the worse for wear and usncarred by war. and i was not implying that they would make it in civilian society. i said: the fact that these individuals enlist is a pretty good indication that, were they to remain in civilian life, they would *not* be. . .engaged [in selling drugs,robbing and stealing in my neighborhood] does *not* selling drugs [etc.] constitute 'making it'? not necessarily. they could still be arrested for driving/walking while black; beaten and sodomized by the arresting officers; condemned by a justice system which is at best indifferent, and at worst genocidally racist, to an unduly harsh mandatory minimum sentence--a truly horrible fate when you consider that they might be beaten or sodomized or killed by their fellow inmates; or the fact, almost ignored by our 'liberal media', that abu ghreib-style 'abuse' of prison inmates has become widespread in american jails; or the fact that now they will not only have to survive in our society as a poor minority, but as a poor minority ex-con; and above all, in light of all this, when you consider the fact that, if you're hispanic or, especially, black, the odds are far greater than for any other group that you didn't actually commit the crime. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm Torture Inc. Americas Brutal Prisons By Deborah Davies Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals, Does such barbaric abuse inside U.S. jails explain the horrors that were committed in Iraq? They are just some of the victims of wholesale torture taking place inside the U.S. prison system that we uncovered during a four-month investigation for BBC Channel 4 . It's terrible to watch some of the videos and realise that you're not only seeing torture in action but, in the most extreme cases, you are witnessing young men dying.] [more, with video] http://www.alternet.org/rights/22155/ Castro Strikes a Nerve By Jill Soffiyah Elijah, AlterNet. Posted June 3, 2005. ''... My more than 20 years as a criminal defense lawyer and professor of criminal defense advocacy confirm the widely known assessment that every aspect of the criminal justice system is ripe for criticism and laden with hypocrisy... The United States incarcerates more people per capita than any other developed nation on earth. The population of the United States comprises 5% of the world's population but its incarcerated population is equal to more than 25% of the world's prisoners. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 32% of black males will enter state or federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 17% of Hispanic males and 5.9% of white males. In other words, one third of black men can expect to be incarcerated during their life times if they live in the United States. Incarceration in the U.S. is a growing industry. In 2001, an estimated 2.7% of adults in the U.S. had served time in prison, up from 1.8% in 1991 and 1.3% in 1974. The BJS reports that as of December 31, 2001, there were an estimated 5.6 million adults who had ever served time in state or federal prison, including 4.3 million former prisoners and 1.3 million adults in prison. At every stage of the criminal justice system in the U.S., blacks, Latinos, Chicanos and other people of color and the poor are disproportionately impacted... The millions who have had their lives interrupted by the criminal justice system know that fairness is usually an illusion discussed widely in classrooms but not mentioned in courtrooms. They know it's unjust. See also: http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=3942 Republican senator says US prisons best in the world WASHINGTON, June 5 (AFP) of cousrse, they might not make it that far, because a trigger-happy policeman might just decide to shoot them on the spot. or they could be killed by a stray gangbanger's bullet, or in a drive-by because the gangbangers mistook them for someone else. or, they could somehow weave their way through this minefield, and live in poverty; as most african-americans and many, if not most, hispanics/hispanic-americans still do. there are a fair number of poor whites who also enlist. while the deck is not so severely stacked against them socio-economically, crime and drugs and gangs do exist in poor white areas, and the fact remains that most poor whites are born into poverty, and will never rise out of poverty. which, again, is why so many enlist. but what if we offered them an alternative? what if we told them you can join the army/navy/air force/marines and earn
Re: [Biofuel] Bug Power
Keith Addison wrote: Does that mean you could just pee in it? LOL! Perhaps we could develop a urine distillation unit to remove nitrogen and make our own NH3 with the help of a small scale electrolyzer. . . The barn litter I use for my garden off gases a LOT of ammonia when it's fresh. If I could figure out how to collect it, I'd have ammonia for free! Well, at least it's a sustainable and renewable source. If you go out trying to buy loads of ammonia isn't there a fair chance you might end up in Gitmo? My mother in law keeps telling me I need to be careful about what I say around here, lest certain men in suits come looking for me with an extradition order . . . (U.S. citizens aren't supposed to go to Cuba.) Ammonia in gaseous form can be purchased from any welding supplier, or can be bought as ammonium hydrate, which I believe is a garden variety fertilizer. I think the Home Power article discussed using ammonium hydrate. It wouldn't be practical to have a big, off axis parabolic trough on my property, but that handy little gasifier I have could be scaled up. Hmmm. . . That's okay, but I stop somewhere short of pressure pumps and vacuum pumps. The need for a pressure vessel complicates things. I've been looking into destructive biomass distillation to generate methane gas for some time. Our house is heated with natural gas, and it sure would be nice to fire that little boiler of ours (34 000 btu!) with bio methane. In addition, a gas fuel conversion to my truck is well within my mechanical capabilities, and the machine is already supercharged. (Gas fuel would require me to bump up the boost somewhat, but that's NOT a problem!) I only need about 200 km of range anyway. We had one of those at our farm in Wiltshire years ago, we wondered why everyone didn't have one. It didn't have a solar access tracker, but it didn't use much power, and it was quiet. Can you tell us more about that? I think you're onto something Robert. As long as I'm not ON something. . . I can think of many ways to integrate energy production / usage. I have information about innovative solar heat storage, heliostats, trough and fresnel concentrators, plasma reformers, anaerobic methane digestion, AFEX, ethanol distillation, wood gasification, electrolysis and biological production of hydrogen, steam power and organic rankine cycle engines that have never been put into practice, except for the steam, which I did as a project with my students many years ago. Much of this requires time (which I have right now) and money (which I don't), so nothing gets done. This all sounds doable, sort of, and AFAIK, short of industrial megabucks or nonavailable tailored bugs the only other doable way of crunching cellulose into ethanol is with sulphuric acid, which seems crude by comparison. In my case, because I'm living in Canada, distilling ethanol remains out of the question. It's simply not legal for an individual, and since I'm a guest in this country, I don't want to make a fuss about such a silly regulation. However, the AFEX process has an elegance about it that cannot be ignored. It can probably be done quite nicely on a small scale. The only trouble I see is that we're still stuck using cellulase, which has to be regularly bought from a chemical supply house (and isn't cheap), unless a clever person could find a way to culture trichoderma reesei and extract the enzyme from those marvelous little bacteria! If you do unearth them eventually, if you send me the citations I might be able to get hold of better copies we could use. I've been looking, but I can't find them! A Google search of afex + ammonia reveals some hits. The paper you linked is dated Appl Biochem Biotechnol. 2005 Spring: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=pubmedd opt=Abstractlist_uids=15930586itool=iconabstrquery_hl=2 Pretreatment of Switchgrass by Ammonia Fiber Explosion (AFEX) Would a full copy be helpful? Yes! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New York : DA Drops The Charges Against Carol Lang
greetings, keith. you were right there with the appropriate citations to the subject at hand. it's beginning to look like that is as per usual. i don't know how you do it. In a message dated 6/6/05 10:31:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The share of the nation's income earned by those in this uppermost category has more than doubled since 1980, to 7.4 percent in 2002. The share of income earned by the rest of the top 10 percent rose far less, and the share earned by the bottom 90 percent fell... yep. as u.s. population approaches 300 million, around 8% of national income went to fewer than 150,000 individuals. quantitative proof that, in the immortal words of a recent president, the state of our economy is strong. clearly our didn't mean all of ours. Does such barbaric abuse inside U.S. jails explain the horrors that were committed in Iraq? this was beyond a doubt already widespread within our borders since before the current conflict. i'm so glad you cited this source; it's important to draw this link. The population of the United States comprises 5% of the world's population but its incarcerated population is equal to more than 25% of the world's prisoners. iirc our comsumption of the world's energy supply is similarly disproportionate. as is our share of greenhouse gas output. then that explains it, because it sure takes a lot of resources to deal with all those bad elements. . . . well, it's back to the regular work routine for me. maybe i'll have a chance to drop in during the week. otherwise, until the weekend. best, -chris oh, no you DI-in't! superman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
