Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Thread John Smith
On 16 September 2010 07:58, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Or did you mean CommonMap? http://commonmap.info Unlikely, since CommonMap is cc-by, not cc-by-sa... Or did you mean SharedMap? http://www.sharedmap.org At this stage this is run and used by a single person, perhaps this

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Thread John Smith
On 16 September 2010 08:11, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: This old saw again, JohnSmith? Every time the community is asked, they support progress in the form of ODbL rather than the inappropriate CC-By-SA. Here is the latest feedback for you. Yes and how many said they haven't even

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Thread John Smith
On 16 September 2010 08:15, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: It will take forever if you never start the discussion. ;-) I was under the impression the LWG was already talking to Nearmap, however I don't have a problem with the current license, so I don't see a point in wasting it to

Re: [OSM-talk] [OT] ABC Radio National's Future Tense Maps and tracking - Part One

2010-09-11 Thread John Smith
On 12 September 2010 02:11, Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu wrote: years which I found to be quite interesting and also gave OSM a little mention too That might be because of previous interview David Dean gave: http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2009/05/make-your-own-m.html

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread John Smith
On 8 September 2010 02:01, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office. or shop... I'd also consider things like hairdresser to be in shop, even though it

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread John Smith
On 8 September 2010 05:03, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: I don't see a locksmith as a shop, even if it's usually called like that. In german it's called dienst (service) so it should maybe be office=locksmith but that doesn't match it either. Most locksmith's here either have a

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread John Smith
On 8 September 2010 06:07, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/9/7 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: How many lock smiths actually make something? The ones here sell and install alarm/security systems, cut keys etc... They don't make their own locks... probably

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread John Smith
On 8 September 2010 12:15, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Locksmiths who repair shoes? I hadn't heard of that combination before. Wouldn't that be tagged separately as a locksmith and a shoe repair shop, instead of simply tagging it as a locksmith? They also sell key chains

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Garmin Maps / Produced Works

2010-09-04 Thread John Smith
On 5 September 2010 00:00, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: I find it hard to imagine that *any* ODbL licensed data will ever get shared back to OSM. If it is so difficult to share back data then I think that will be a serious demotivator for many contributors. Unless the CTs change,or an

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-newbies] layers in OSM?

2010-09-04 Thread John Smith
On 5 September 2010 02:04, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: I've been thinking about layers for a while. In OSM we do not use layers for different types of features as one would in traditional GIS. I suppose the benefit of this is simplicity, but in very dense areas, things can get

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Garmin Maps / Produced Works

2010-09-03 Thread John Smith
This is pretty much in line with Francis' claim about copyright being on maps, and copyright law not stating anything about the form the map comes in, but of course without court cases on the matter we're all left guessing. Next problem with the Garmin maps, suppose they use extracts from

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] 80m Manifesto

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
You would have had more luck sticking to one alias (Jane Smith), now you're just making it obvious as to your goals. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that some are now stooping to questionable tactics, but it just re-enforces the fact that I no longer have any faith in those that are pushing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 16:16, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: But we know that his boks should be burnt. How can we allow Fredderik to spread the gospel in his books when we know the 'new license' should be brought down? Tip for next time, be less overt, it allows the ruse to go on for

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] 80m Manifesto

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 17:00, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: The longer we keep our secret about BigTinCan John Oh goody a juicy secret... do tell, or should be have a sleep over and play truth or dare? ___ legal-talk mailing list

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 17:06, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: I need to gt my Dinner here in Sydney, but back later! Did you have a good flight from Germany? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 17:58, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: That you claim that Frederik, or LWG, or OSMF Board are are trying to speak for both people now and people in the future in the very same breath is bold. You know perfectly well that term three gives the decision on future

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 18:03, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I think it is nothing but selfish. You don't even know if you'll be in OSM As I've stated in the past, which you conveniently keep ignoring, over looking or misunderstanding... You are putting end users of the data ahead of

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 18:30, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Still in OppositeLand, JohnSmith? Can't figure out any better insults? The Contributor Terms trust future OSM contributors to make the right choices for future OSM licenses. Do you trust current and future OSM At least be

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 18:46, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On the other hand, six-ish years ago there was no concern that we would have to be compatible with OS data. Now, they publish open data And how compatible will the CTs be with OS data exactly?

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 19:07, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: If you don't want the effects of a PD OSM for geodata, ODbL is a better way of ensuring this than BY-SA The devil you know is better than the devil you don't At this stage I have every reason to believe the CT and now possible the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 19:12, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Every time OSM contributors have been asked, they have supported ODbL Is this like all the laywers that think the ODBL is great too? about 12,500 contributors make up about 99% of the data, how many of those agree with your point

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 19:38, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Please, stop being so childish about all this. Most people would be mortified if they realised how much trouble they were causing, even inadvertently. Whereas you seem to be relishing it, and egging yourself on to annoy

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 19:59, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: My comments have nothing to do with the debate or any issues you Then perhaps you should have used another thread with a more appropriate subject line to avoid confusion? My comments are intended to address your disruptive

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 2 September 2010 05:14, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: there's hardly a single message of yours in which I fail so find something inappropriate. I've made several comments that you do like wise, you keep claiming this change is needed to make OSM more free, but that's dishonest

Re: [OSM-talk] Waze using OSM Data

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 20:33, Claudius claudiu...@gmx.de wrote: You seem to be misunderstanding something here. No data has been deleted. Waze is looking forward to use OSM data after the license change, because the current one doesn't allow them to use the OSM data (even including attribution)

Re: [OSM-talk] Waze using OSM Data

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 21:06, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: OSM: go to shame ourselves. Most OSM software is GPL'd are you telling those authors they should be ashamed of themselves for not publishing under a BSD license instead?

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 21:21, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: The devil is in the details. CT+ODBL has a lot of fine print... But going from these reasonable objections to accusing the actions of the part of the community that you don't agree with of being dishonest, immoral and detrimental

Re: [OSM-talk] Waze using OSM Data

2010-09-01 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 21:26, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: GPL is not the problem here. None of the software has to be distributed to the end user. No distribution = No license violation. http://svn.openstreetmap.org/LICENSE ___ talk mailing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
2010/8/31 Dirk-Lüder Kreie osm-l...@deelkar.net: Are you suggesting that one contributor should have power over many, just because they contributed more data? Because that seems what you are saying by using the import as an argument against the CT and the ODbL relicensing. At this stage

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
On 1 September 2010 07:21, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I think that most people would say that's a feature, not a problem. But you aren't asking most people since you don't want to know the true answer. ___ legal-talk mailing list

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
On 31 August 2010 17:30, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, Ross Scanlon wrote: Sarcasm switch firmly on. :D Can anyone explain why aussie humour isn't understood in most other parts of the world? ___ Talk-au mailing list

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
On 31 August 2010 19:11, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: In the case of Campbell Primary School it only renders one name at even the highest zoom level. I'm seeing two names at the highest zoom level. URL?

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
On 31 August 2010 19:16, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:14 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: URL? http://c.tile.openstreetmap.org/18/239684/158567.png I was after the perm link (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-35.290188lon

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
On 31 August 2010 19:28, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: This is exactly what I did, but Ross said this is not correct (barring the one or two source tags I incorrectly copied across that I offered to fix). There may be a miscommunication, but you definitely don't need/nor should

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
On 31 August 2010 19:41, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Additionally just don't delete 300 or so nodes without seeing if it's by general agreement rather than just announcing that you've done it. Not that you'd do anything like that, John :) Actually that's probably one of the few

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-31 Thread John Smith
On 31 August 2010 20:00, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: Ok sorry, in future I'll make announcements here. I just didn't want to spam the list and I knew it could be reverted anyway. The longer you leave things to do a revert, the more problematic it will be, best to discuss

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:03, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: The majority ( 50%) of GPL projects are now GPL 3. Which is hardly an argument against allowing relicencing. There is a little bit of a difference between changing versions that are merely an extension of the existing license, than

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:12, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: No, this is about caring about the stated aims of the project rather than fetishising a licence that is not even recommended for use on data by its own authors. I care less about the license than the data, and the only way to ensure

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:22, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: The part of my email that you didn't quote mentions that to some people, GPL 3 was seen as a major change. No where near as major as switching from GPL to BSD, you can try and spin it anyway you like, GPL2 to GPL3 was evolution, not

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:59, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: That isn't a valid comparison. The ODbL is not a BSD-style licence. *If* we were simply being asked about a change of license you'd have a valid argument, but we're not, the CTs are very open ended with a very low barrier for change to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
2010/8/30 Dirk-Lüder Kreie osm-l...@deelkar.net: data will not be available under ODbL temporarily. I'm very sure it will be re-mapped, probably within less than a year. I disagree, especially without access to some of the existing data sources, and so far no one is offering to come to

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 19:36, Chris Browet c...@semperpax.com wrote: - with CC-BY-SA, you'd have to ask every contributor the permission to fork their data (or is only attribution needed? To whom then? The individual contributors?) Only if you wanted to change licenses, which is why OSM-F is asking

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 21:52, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: We recently had a bridge temporarily removed for the SAIL 2010 event in Amsterdam[1]. I tagged it access=no with date_on and date_off time restriction tags as suggested on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access, hoping it

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 22:06, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: While you can't take browser caching into account, in my experience the main tile server manages to keep tiles updated fairly well these days - good enough for one-off (non-repeating) access restrictions with a day resolution to

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 30 August 2010 22:36, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: When was this discussed? I do scan dev but missed this - again, in my experience, tile updating is quite snappy. Sorry, my original post was to dev, the second thread was on the talk list:

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Thread John Smith
On 31 August 2010 06:51, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: That is not true as 80n has shown. It's an anti-thetan license with pseudo GPL clauses and is Racist against Australians. While some love to keep confusing the issue and keep saying that most speaking out are against the ODBL,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-29 Thread John Smith
On 29 August 2010 17:21, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: That's a bit silly. So you're supposed to ask permission to use the data with the current license, and with any possible imaginable other license, as noone will be able to predict how OSM will look like in 10 years. And even Which is

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-29 Thread John Smith
On 29 August 2010 18:16, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Of course we value all existing data but a few unfortunatly licensed imports should not put undue restrict restrictions on the project. There will always be restrictions on the project, because there are lots of data

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-28 Thread John Smith
I wonder how Frederik is going to rationalise having the Kosovo information removed, another million objects that can be added in just a few weeks? http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2010-August/004107.html I wonder how many million of objects he plans to remove and in the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-28 Thread John Smith
On 29 August 2010 09:32, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how long you are going to keep targeting Frederik as if he is the only one to blame for this? He keeps making himself the target when he keeps insulting sections of the community like he does.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-28 Thread John Smith
On 29 August 2010 09:39, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I haven't made a statement about the Kosovo information. I'm sure that whoever has imported it has made sure it would be compatible with future license changes as suggested on the imports Wiki page for ages. Since the data is

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-28 Thread John Smith
on what Mike had said, he made no reference to a wiki page. John Smith as you are aware, the LWG is still in discussion with NearMap. Will this be in discussion for the next 2 years? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http

Re: [OSM-talk] Place of worship

2010-08-26 Thread John Smith
On 27 August 2010 09:31, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote: How about a church run unemployed support centre? (gives out food, This could border on the absurd... Several of the job agencies[1] contracted to the Australian Federal Government are run/backed by religious organisations, these

Re: [OSM-talk] Culvert and average contributor

2010-08-26 Thread John Smith
On 27 August 2010 10:04, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: The way I understand it, a culvert is just a tiny pseudo-bridge, physically equivalent to a tunnel under an embankment. Culverts don't show up in the US National Bridge Inventory, which is a database of bridges on public

[talk-au] Fwd: [Tagging] Intermittent water

2010-08-26 Thread John Smith
This might be more suitable for Lake Eyre etc... http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/41007651 -- Forwarded message -- From: Bégin, Daniel daniel.be...@rncan-nrcan.gc.ca Date: 27 August 2010 06:29 Subject: [Tagging] Intermittent water To: tagg...@openstreetmap.org Cc:

[talk-au] Good data deal for mapping parties + mobile mappers...

2010-08-26 Thread John Smith
Just thought I'd give people a heads up if they're looking for a good deal on mobile broadband, currently Vodafone are offering 1.5G/mo for $15 on a month to month post pay account and Crazy Johns are offering 2G/mo for $15 on a 6mth post pay account. If you get a rootable android handset you can

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3

2010-08-25 Thread John Smith
On 25 August 2010 17:41, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I am against trying to force our will on OSM in 10 years. OSM in ten years will have a larger community and a larger data volume by orders of magnitude. I don't think it is right to force their hand in any way over and above the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM Fork] Relicensing graphic

2010-08-25 Thread John Smith
On 25 August 2010 19:59, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: removed (two of which are probably TIGER and AND): http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g51/80n80n/osm/odbl_cropped.png No, the 3 largest all relate to the US as best we can figure. The original TIGER import is #1, Frederik's bot to remove

[talk-au] Fwd: [Aust-NZ] interesting decision - UK row over publishing public mapping data

2010-08-25 Thread John Smith
-- Forwarded message -- From: Ross Johnson ros...@hotmail.com Date: 25 August 2010 12:41 Subject: [Aust-NZ] interesting decision - UK row over publishing public mapping data To: Public sector bodies in the UK will not be able to publish data on Google Maps, despite a new deal

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3

2010-08-24 Thread John Smith
On 25 August 2010 14:13, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I'm surprised that some individuals in the community are pushing back so hard on free and open not being the right approach. Some would Would that be GPL free and open of BSD free and open ? As I said before, why is most software

Re: [talk-au] Why maxspeed:source not source:maxspeed?

2010-08-24 Thread John Smith
On 25 August 2010 14:40, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: John are you going to do this? I'm stuck on 3G atm, I may not be able to get to it for a week or more depending on what happens until I get access to a DSL connection again. ___ Talk-au

[talk-au] Fwd: [Aust-NZ] CrisisCamp Pakistan Floods, Sydney (4-5 Sept)

2010-08-23 Thread John Smith
-- Forwarded message -- From: Shoaib Burq sab...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:37:42 +1000 Subject: [Aust-NZ] CrisisCamp Pakistan Floods, Sydney (4-5 Sept) To: Aust-NZ OSGeo aust...@lists.osgeo.org Hi all, Thought some of you maybe interested in coming along and helping out

Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation

2010-08-22 Thread John Smith
On 22 August 2010 20:58, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: This is not a good starting position for a fork. I'd rather have somone do it who doesn't do it out of blind protest and political propaganda. License disputes is one of the more common reasons for forks to occur.

Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation

2010-08-22 Thread John Smith
On 22 August 2010 21:09, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Yes, but it can be done clear-headed and without hatred. They want this, we Considering how heated the debate over the license is, do you seriously think this won't happen on similar topics as well? want that, ok we do our

Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation

2010-08-22 Thread John Smith
On 22 August 2010 21:12, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Sunday 22 August 2010, Jenny Campbell wrote: everyone else's concerns You are trying to make it sound like there are a huge number of people that agree with you. Perhaps you genuinely believe that. If so I think you are

Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation

2010-08-22 Thread John Smith
On 22 August 2010 22:06, Renaud MICHEL r.h.michel+...@gmail.com wrote: Although my login informations in OSM are not very sensible, I expect them to be reasonably confidential and only accessible to a few administrators. I have no problem if the data I contributed is copied by [one or

Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch for Newbies

2010-08-21 Thread John Smith
On 22 August 2010 07:04, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: I don't think that would help: I tried out OSM a few years ago, fixing a very few bugs and left again. Restarting this year using my old account I had no idea how to edit - so if that approach is a good idea, I would

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Size of NearMap Contribution

2010-08-20 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 18:21, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: In my eyes the ODbL and CT are part and parcel and I refer to both as the license change. I don't think that you can separate them. Is that because you don't think people will swallow the CTs unless they are a package deal? The

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] It's a shame

2010-08-20 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 21:30, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: It is for this reason that I believe clause 3 of the CT is essential. This current situation must not be allowed to happen again. The problem is the scope of section 3, not it's existence.

Re: [OSM-talk] iPad app

2010-08-20 Thread John Smith
On 21 August 2010 05:12, bernhard zwischenbrugger b...@datenkueche.com wrote: But editing with a touchscreen is not easy. How to set a point using a finger? If you put the finger to the screen, you don't see where the point is set. The finger covers the point and it can't be exact. Any idea

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] NearMap Community Licence and OSM Contributor Terms

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 06:05, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Sure, but who employed them and are repeating it, and going along with it? The same questions have been asked about OSM-F, with more or less the same answers... In their original email. I wasn't quite sure of the context, thus I wrote

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] NearMap Community Licence and OSM Contributor Terms

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 06:29, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I think we're all at fault here because when NearMap images became availalbe for tracing, the whole license change process was already in motion and the This is a symptom of a much larger problem in OSM, I wasted time asking for

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] NearMap Community Licence and OSM Contributor Terms

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 06:32, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Sure, but the OSMF's legal remit is very, very different to NearMaps. At this point in time we could be told anything by OSM-F and it has to be taken on good faith that it was an actual opinion by a lawyer, which can't be quoted directly.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributors and some data sources are not allowed under the CTs but too easy to access.

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 06:35, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: 388 users have declared their edits to be PD on the Wiki for a long time, and I don't think any of them have restricted their editing to PD sources exclusively. On the other hand I know some mappers that only ever map from their

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Size of NearMap Contribution

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 11:09, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I arrived at a sum of 1,057,549, slightly over 1 million. The total number of objects in Australia is 10,234,567. That means that roughly 10% of data in Australia might be affected by NearMap. How much will be effected that has

Re: [OSM-talk] NearMap Community Licence and OSM Contributor Terms

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 00:59, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: If it's about NearMap, then talk-au seems more appropriate. While that may currently be true, they claim to be planning to image some European cities on a monthly basis, I've asked for a rough time line indication.

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik render queue stuck

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 19 August 2010 18:34, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: But what is imo most likely happening is that the rendering server is at capacity and thus can't deal with rerenders fast enough, so you won't see the updates as quickly as you would hope. Also, when it reaches capacity, it It's

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] NearMap Community Licence and OSM Contributor Terms

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 05:23, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: I think the bigger issues is NearMap mistaking the intention and the word of the license. We can debate for the next millennia the meaning of a future free and open license under the specific wording of what that might mean. These

Re: [talk-au] What's going on here? (mysterious street)

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
On 20 August 2010 11:28, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: copyright-trap; if it showed up in an external database it'd be evidence of copying. It could also have been a gazetted road that was never built... ___ Talk-au mailing list

[talk-au] Fwd: [Aust-NZ] RE: ABS news

2010-08-19 Thread John Smith
-- Forwarded message -- From: Ross Johnson ros...@hotmail.com Date: 20 August 2010 13:14 Subject: [Aust-NZ] RE: ABS news To: aust...@lists.osgeo.org ABS to equip staff with wikis, blogs and community spaces

Re: [OSM-talk] A GPS Trace Visualizer

2010-08-18 Thread John Smith
On 18 August 2010 22:51, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: For some time I have been thinking about making a tileserver / WMS with a visualisation of OSM GPS traces, but one where you can see how many traces overlap at a given point (so some kind of heat map thing). This would be

Re: [OSM-talk] A GPS Trace Visualizer

2010-08-18 Thread John Smith
On 18 August 2010 23:08, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: There is likely to be a considerable difference between the average speed and the maximum speed, particularly along streets that are badly congested at different times of day. The average speed is useful for routing

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik render queue stuck

2010-08-18 Thread John Smith
On 19 August 2010 02:45, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Nope. Someone must have done /dirty on it after I sent the email. Caching issues wouldn't explain why the /status for the tiles claimed they were due to be rendered - plus this was on two different computers, 6 hours apart. I

Re: [OSM-talk] A GPS Trace Visualizer

2010-08-18 Thread John Smith
On 19 August 2010 07:26, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: I had not really considered mixed traces. My workflow typically results in pretty atomic traces especially when it comes to transport mode but yeah I can see your case being another complication in trying to use traces to derive

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik render queue stuck

2010-08-18 Thread John Smith
2010/8/19 Jonas Häggqvist ras...@rasher.dk: I've had the same suspicion. I've asked around on IRC without response and had come to the conclusion that I must be going mad, because surely such a thing would be noticed instantly. Maybe not? Which is why I didn't file a bug after no one else said

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik render queue stuck

2010-08-18 Thread John Smith
On 19 August 2010 09:40, Jon Burgess jburgess...@gmail.com wrote: The automated expiry mechanism is working. There would be many more complaints if it was completely broken. If you believe this is not the case then we need links to some specific nodes or ways which you believe should have

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL, CTs and tracing GPS tracks

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 18 August 2010 01:51, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: It's no more or less factual than recording temperature and other meteorological data at a weather station. In most countries various government and non-government organisations try to claim copyright over that sort of

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is tracing from Yahoo allowed under the CT's

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 18 August 2010 09:37, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: By the way, all the images I've personally seen in the Yahoo API (this isn't the same as maps.yahoo.com) are most likely USGS. So there is no license. It's public domain. Maybe for the US, but what about the rest of the world? AFAIK they

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is tracing from Yahoo allowed under the CT's

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 18 August 2010 09:53, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: In my experience the Yahoo imagery outside the US is fairly low resolution. But I haven't looked everywhere, so maybe I'm missing some. They cover about 50,000km^2 for Australia in reasonably high res imagery... Apparently Yahoo gets

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is tracing from Yahoo allowed under the CT's

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 18 August 2010 10:12, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: No. It doesn't. Even if satellite images can be copyrighted (and that alone is questionable), using them to make ways which follow roads almost surely wouldn't constitute a derivative work, because it doesn't copy any of the arguably

Re: [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 17 August 2010 07:47, Jonas Stein n...@jonasstein.de wrote: You can rent a lot of things. Today (2010-08-16) there is a different approach for each thing you can rent. * car * bike * boat Aren't these shops? ___ talk mailing list

Re: [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 17 August 2010 21:09, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: Of course there are shops, where you can buy AND rent a bike or a car - but that's an additional argument to tag it different: shop=car; rent=car; I would have suggested something along the lines of... shop=rental

Re: [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 17 August 2010 22:34, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: so how would you tag a bicycle shop which rents bikes as well? I don't think that we need shop=rental, but rental:car=yes/no etc. might be a way to go, given that multiple values still seem to be a problem. You would

Re: [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 17 August 2010 23:13, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: It's the same question in other cases, too: - post offices as service of normal shops vs. selling office stuff as service of post offices The primary purpose is handling mail and mail related items, eg stamps, everything

Re: [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 17 August 2010 23:40, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: might be true in your area, is not in Germany in part of the offices: German post decided that it was cheaper to close lots of offices and let local convenience stores sell postal products (service point inside

Re: [talk-au] linux.conf.au 2011

2010-08-17 Thread John Smith
On 18 August 2010 05:50, mattwh...@iinet.net.au mattwh...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is anybody in Brisvegas interested in running an OSM stand at linuxconf? I've put in an application for a miniconf... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Simple question about CT

2010-08-16 Thread John Smith
On 16 August 2010 20:40, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: to legal, we've meanwhile almost reached the point where we send away 12-year-old mappers because they are not old enough to legally agree to the CT? (Why don't we, by the way?) (Oh no, sorry, delete that last question.)

Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: what are empty nodes and how should we use them?

2010-08-16 Thread John Smith
On 17 August 2010 06:34, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: (Personally I think a fixme is too strong - it sounds like there is something broken that needs to be fixed whereas I simply want to point out that there's something there which has not yet been mapped. To me, the logical

[talk-au] OSM maps used on kids tv show...

2010-08-15 Thread John Smith
Newish TV show, K-9, which seems to be a kids spin off from the K-9 dog that used to be on Doctor Who a couple of decades ago, in any case a map flashed up and I instantly recognised it as OSM map tiles... You can see the map on this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AggIfEp_7mw

Re: [talk-au] OSM maps used on kids tv show...

2010-08-15 Thread John Smith
On 16 August 2010 11:14, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Nice to see OSM data in use on TV. firefishy says that the central London tiles shown predate 23 May 2010. The wikipedia page says it was filmed 2008-2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-9_(TV_series)

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