Mathias Bauer wrote:
For further reference please watch issue #4914.
Excellent, thank you very much.
///Peter
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Robin Laing wrote:
Look at issue 3395 and see if that is in your line of thinking. Look at
the images that I uploaded as examples in a way of a compromise.
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3395
I wasn't able to locate any images referenced in that page. What userid
did you
Peter Flynn wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Look at issue 3395 and see if that is in your line of thinking. Look
at the images that I uploaded as examples in a way of a compromise.
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3395
I wasn't able to locate any images referenced in that page.
Barrie Backhurst wrote:
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:24 +, Peter Flynn wrote:
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from the
XML -- but a margin display of the style used against each
paragraph-level
Hi Peter,
Peter Flynn wrote:
Barrie Backhurst wrote:
Peter Flynn wrote:
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from the
XML -- but a margin display of the style used against each
paragraph-level object in my document, so I can see at a glance what
named style has
Peter Flynn schreef:
Barrie Backhurst wrote:
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:24 +, Peter Flynn wrote:
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from
the
XML -- but a margin display of the style used
On 1/10/07, Arnold Huzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peter Flynn schreef:
Barrie Backhurst wrote:
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:24 +, Peter Flynn wrote:
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from
the
Cor Nouws wrote:
[style trace]
I think it is a nice idea.
OTOH, I've not seen situations, where applied styles are that large in
number ánd not distinguish enough to speak of a 'pretty fundamental
omission'. Just my opinion of course.
It's only paragraph styles that Word displays this way.
Arnold Huzen wrote:
The applied style of a paragraph is shown in the toolbar. You only need
to put the cursor in the specific paragraph.
Yes, but only one at a time. The importance of the style margin is that
you can see the style for each paragraph-level object alongside it, all
the way
Michele Zarri wrote:
On 1/10/07, Arnold Huzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peter Flynn schreef:
Barrie Backhurst wrote:
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:24 +, Peter Flynn wrote:
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone
Peter Flynn wrote:
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from the
XML -- but a margin display of the style used against each
paragraph-level object in my document, so I can see at a glance what
named
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from the
XML -- but a margin display of the style used against each
paragraph-level object in my document, so I can see at a glance what
named style has been applied
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:24 +, Peter Flynn wrote:
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from the
XML -- but a margin display of the style used against each
paragraph-level object in my document, so
Peter Flynn wrote:
Just picking up on this thread from back in March (and elsewhere),
what I'm looking for is NOT reveal codes -- anyone can get them from the
XML -- but a margin display of the style used against each
paragraph-level object in my document, so I can see at a glance what
named
Peter Flynn wrote:
XML -- but a margin display of the style used against each
paragraph-level object in my document, so I can see at a glance what
Change the standard tool bar to display the style, and its attributes.
Scroll down the document, and you will be able to see both paragraph
styles,
Hi Robin,
Robin Laing wrote:
Cor Nouws wrote:
Robin wrote:
I can come up with many examples where styles don't work for me or
other people I work with.
Then there's just no hope left for you ;-)
My wife keeps telling me that from time to time as well. :)
She must make a mistake
Rod Engelsman wrote:
Honestly, I think I would call this a bug. In fact I'm going to file an
issue on it if there isn't one already and see what the developers have
to say about it.
Please give the number. I don't think I have any votes left in that
category, but I'd like to see what
klaus schmirler wrote:
Rod Engelsman wrote:
Honestly, I think I would call this a bug. In fact I'm going to file
an issue on it if there isn't one already and see what the developers
have to say about it.
Please give the number. I don't think I have any votes left in that
category, but
Cor Nouws wrote:
I don't think it is a bug.
If I paste text with character-formatting in paragraph (with of course a
style), it is logic that the pasted text has character-formatting.
If I want to paste without formatting, I choose 'Paste Special'.
Quite reasonable.
But making an
Hi Jallan,
Jallan wrote:
Cor Nouws wrote:
I don't think it is a bug.
If I paste text with character-formatting in paragraph (with of course
a style), it is logic that the pasted text has character-formatting.
If I want to paste without formatting, I choose 'Paste Special'.
Quite
Cor Nouws wrote:
I didn't notice an exeption for the default paragraph style.
Every paragraph style (well, I only tried six ;-) has the same behaviour.
When pasted, direct formatting (be it by Ctrl-B or character styles) the
formatting is included.
When text without direct formatting is
Rod Engelsman wrote:
Direct formatting with Wordperfect-style tokens is like typing with the
Shift key. You're typing along and then you hit the Caps-lock key and
that tells the machine to create upper-case letters until you release
the Caps-lock and then you are creating lower-case letters
klaus schmirler wrote:
I appreciate your efforts trying to explain the difference - and making
a comment re further ahead in the discussion, I can very well imagine
e.g. a tree opening from the context menu, starting with the names of
page, paragraph, character c. styles and then branching out
klaus schmirler wrote:
But from your description, I would expect the opposite behaviour of WP
and OOo in this experiment:
Write two lines of anything, bolden one of them (whether by defining a
character style or with the button up on the menu doesn't make a
difference). Now select a
Robin wrote:
it overkill to include every possible change of format in one dialog box.
If you ran into the problems that I have, then this wouldn't be classified as
overkill.
Do you sincerely, and absolutely think that having all 500 odd
attributes of a style, with their roughly 2 5000
Robin wrote:
it overkill to include every possible change of format in one dialog box.
If you ran into the problems that I have, then this wouldn't be classified as
overkill.
Do you sincerely, and absolutely think that having all 500 odd
attributes of a style, with their roughly 2 5000
Robin Laing wrote:
I have used styles on created documents. Reveal codes are great when
you have a problem with formatting. No multiple clicking of multiple
tabs or windows to see that someone had made some strange changes that
were left in by default.
First, you don't see changes. You see
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
There is no way to visualize a style change done to a space
within a document. I know a change has taken place but I don't
know where. This is obvious with RC's.
And is as obvious using OOo, s currently implemented, and without
using the RC Macro.
Robin Laing wrote:
Please tell me how as I have been through everything and I cannot find
any way to show me within my text where formatting changes. I looked
through the styles pdf from OOo web site and I cannot find out how to
do this.
Surely in far more than 90% of the documents you
Robin Laing wrote:
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
There is no way to visualize a style change done to a space
within a document. I know a change has taken place but I don't
know where. This is obvious with RC's.
And is as obvious using OOo, s currently implemented, and without
Jallan wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Fair enough ... but myself and others have indicated that we feel that
it overkill to include every possible change of format in one dialog box.
If you ran into the problems that I have, then this wouldn't be
classified as overkill. It is the same
Robin Laing wrote:
Jonathon Blake wrote:
You can easily find where styles changes in the document. Finding all
changes based on direct formatting is less easy.
In most cases, certainly over 90% of such changes in most documents,
just look at the screen.
But for less visible changes, say
Robin Laing wrote:
If you ran into the problems that I have, then this wouldn't be
classified as overkill. It is the same problem with MS Word as well,
not just OOo.
Not at all. I have converted problem problem documents to MS Office. I
still won't want one enormous dialog box covering a
Robin Laing wrote:
The attributes supplied by styles can be overwritten by user-applied
direct formatting, and in some cases by other user applied styles. We
know this.
And these can be hard to find. A RC style viewer or at least reveal
formatting points may make life much better in these
Jallan wrote:
You can also fix this in a non-structural fashion by doing a Find
Replace to Find All text in Header 1 style, and then turn off the
blinking in Format - Characters... - Font Effects through direct
formatting, turning it off for all the found text at once.
And Jallan just
On Fri, 2006-03-31 at 15:08 -0600, Rod Engelsman wrote:
Robin, It's statements like this that make me believe that you still
don't quite understand the differences between the WP code/tokens and
Writer/Word object styles. You say you understand that Writer has no
codes to reveal, but then
Rod Engelsman wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
The attributes supplied by styles can be overwritten by user-applied
direct formatting, and in some cases by other user applied styles. We
know this.
And these can be hard to find. A RC style viewer or at least reveal
formatting points may make
Bruce Byfield wrote:
On Fri, 2006-03-31 at 15:08 -0600, Rod Engelsman wrote:
Robin, It's statements like this that make me believe that you still
don't quite understand the differences between the WP code/tokens and
Writer/Word object styles. You say you understand that Writer has no
codes
Klaus wrote:
Separated from the options of defining new ones?
Yes.
xan
jonathon
--
Ethical conduct is a vice.
Corrupt conduct is a virtue.
Motto of Nacarima.
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Separated from the options of defining new ones?
Yes.
OK, please give a little hint as to where.
klaus
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Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
that would indicate when styles change within a document.
That feature is _currently_ present in OOo.
How and where do I enable this feature? I have looked and looked. I
would expect it in the View menu. What menu is it in 2.0.1?
You snipped the
klaus schmirler wrote:
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Klaus wrote:
If it had a change option for every character, numbering, paragraph
and page style that is applied in a given place, possibly mentioning the
Currently implemented in OOo.
Separated from the options of defining new ones? And, more
Jallan wrote:
klaus schmirler wrote:
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Klaus wrote:
If it had a change option for every character, numbering, paragraph
and page style that is applied in a given place, possibly mentioning
the
Currently implemented in OOo.
Separated from the options of defining
Robin wrote:
This is what I am requesting. A viewer or way of indicating that there are
changes, either
Currently available.
You would rather those that want an easy to use interface for formatting just
go away but that
No, I would rather that they be willing to spend the time learning
Robin Laing wrote:
This is what I am requesting. A viewer or way of indicating that there
are changes, either directly or by styles within the text of the
documents similar to View non-printing characters with a status bar
that shows the formatting. No mouse clicks, not scrolling to a
Ed wrote:
Having used both methods, as in OO and WP, they both have their place.
Styles are fine for the publishing industry, and corporations that need
to have a fixed style in documents, letters, etc.
But, for my personal use I prefer the WP method of changing the format
of individual words,
klaus schmirler wrote:
Now suppose someone switches from OOo to WP and wants to erase such an
essay title. They will find that the quote characters cannot be
deleted. Before getting a new keyboard, they can call up the RC frame
and see that there is a style left, and that that style's content
Jallan wrote:
klaus schmirler wrote:
...SNIP...
OOo Writer does lag behind MS Word in providing easy ways to discover
current formatting properties. But enhancements ought to reveal the
structure as it actually exists within OOo Writer, not attempt to
emulate a reveal codes interface for
Robin wrote:
that would indicate when styles change within a document.
That feature is _currently_ present in OOo.
And the ability to delete or change that style/direct formatting.
Also currently available in OOo.
I strongly encourage you to take the time to learn about the features
that
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
that would indicate when styles change within a document.
That feature is _currently_ present in OOo.
Paragraph styles, outside of the text area. Oh yes, and the little bold-
and numbering-icons that are pushed in or not. Not very user friendly.
The
Klaus wrote:
If it had a change option for every character, numbering, paragraph and page
style that is applied in a given place, possibly mentioning the
Currently implemented in OOo.
xan
jonathon
--
Ethical conduct is a vice.
Corrupt conduct is a virtue.
Motto of Nacarima.
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Klaus wrote:
If it had a change option for every character, numbering, paragraph and page
style that is applied in a given place, possibly mentioning the
Currently implemented in OOo.
Separated from the options of defining new ones? And, more importantly,
in one
Rod Engelsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:e09ug3$dhm$1
@sea.gmane.org:
For instance: How exactly do you create an in line heading in Writer?
Something that looks like this:
3. *History* The history of the Andalusian people...
where the word History is treated *as* a Heading in all
Rod Engelsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:e09ug3$dhm$1
@sea.gmane.org:
The other major deficiency in Writer's styles is the inability to affect
a relative change, a change in one attribute without affecting anything
else. So if you have a document that uses more than one font, you have
Andrew Brown wrote:
You can't? I think I just did. It is a matter of putting the word you want
into the numbering style. I will send you privately a document that shows
this -- essentially, I told outline numbering for some headings to use the
character style Rodlevel which has after the
Andrew Brown wrote:
Rod Engelsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:e09ug3$dhm$1
@sea.gmane.org:
The other major deficiency in Writer's styles is the inability to affect
a relative change, a change in one attribute without affecting anything
else. So if you have a document that uses more than
On or about 3/28/2006 8:38 AM, Rod Engelsman penned the following:
Andrew Brown wrote:
Rod Engelsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:e09ug3$dhm$1
@sea.gmane.org:
The other major deficiency in Writer's styles is the inability to
affect a relative change, a change in one attribute without
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
Really? In my experience, I don't agree. But again, I am not an
expert on creating and using styles on hodgepodge documents.
Maybe I should work for the company you do, since you don't know
how to do your job. [All of the scenrios you have described are
Rod Engelsman wrote:
I'm not going to claim that Wordperfect is better (or worse) than
Writer, or that code tokens are better (or worse) than object styles.
But Wordperfect is a mature product with a loyal following for a reason.
I think that WP's implementation of tokens and reveal code is
Ed wrote:
My two cents worth.
Having used both methods, as in OO and WP, they both have their place.
Styles are fine for the publishing industry, and corporations that need
to have a fixed style in documents, letters, etc.
But, for my personal use I prefer the WP method of changing the
Rod Engelsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Andrew Brown wrote:
You can't? I think I just did. It is a matter of putting the word you
want into the numbering style. I will send you privately a document
that shows this -- essentially, I told outline numbering for some
On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 10:23 -0500, Ed wrote:
But, for my personal use I prefer the WP method of changing the format
of individual words, or sentences, on the fly. And if I have to do any
editing later, the Reveal Codes option gives me complete control over my
document.
As a 'personal'
Bruce Byfield wrote:
On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 10:23 -0500, Ed wrote:
But, for my personal use I prefer the WP method of changing the format
of individual words, or sentences, on the fly. And if I have to do any
editing later, the Reveal Codes option gives me complete control over my
document.
Robin wrote:
They are not clones of previous documents and thus would require a different
set of styles.
Make a set of styles for each type of document.
There is nothing tht prevents one from having a default document that
contains the following set of styles:
i) APA Style [Follows APA
Robin wrote:
I then have to ensure that all the previous formatting isn't changed and my
inserted formatting is as close to that of the supplied document.
If all you are concerned about is the markup, then create a PDF of the
document, when you openit in OOo, then eliminate the formatting,
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
On 24/03/2006, at 5:04 AM, Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
After thinking about this overnight, I would like to see a dialog
box that reveals the details of the formatting at the cursor location.
Otehr than each style that is currently being used is displayed
Robin Laing wrote:
No. But there are five lists in the Stylist you can set to show the
current applied styles. Why so desperate to see all character styles
along with all page styles along with all bullet styles at the same
time? Normally you don't work with them all at the same time, or more
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
No, there are just a bunch of styles menus with a bunch of styles
that have other problems.
Such as? ? ?
What style is used and what changes are made at the time that the
change occurred. Until this morning, I didn't know about the ability
to have the
Robin wrote:
VCurrently available.
What is VC?
Typo. IT should read Currently Available.
[I don't run spellcheck when my internet connection is at 28.8 KB, or
lower, which is most of the time.]
the active styles on my version of OOo 2.0.
I seriously doubt that they removed that from OOo
Jallan wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
I quite believe that. But all that is left in OOo Writer is the results
of that misinterpretation, not the codes, which you therefore need not
worry about in fixing the problem. If there are no codes to be jumbled,
no-one can jumble them.
But one can
Robin Laing wrote:
r.
No one just has to look at the attributes that are changed. I look at
the above Normal (Web) and I have 12 major options that can be changed
within it. I see a problem on the page I have but I am not sure what
option is the problem. Of course, if is is a font option
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Robin wrote:
I seriously doubt that they removed that from OOo 1.x and OOo
1.1.x. [This system has 128 MB ram, which is about 896 MB less ram
than OOo 2.x requires.]
CTRLF12 For writer, it is the third selection at the _bottom_.
Other options (for charcter styles)
Robin wrote:
CTRLF12 brings up Insert Table. Different options in different
I might have customized my keyboard shortcuts.
Go Format Styles Catalog
Again, where? I see the styles box but there are different tabs (icons)
that I have to click to get a full picture.
Go reread _Stylist:
Robin wrote:
The why don't you type it and explain how a person that uses Reveal
Word Perfect does not implement styles. Word Perfect does not know
what styles are. The Reveal Codes button for Word Perfect is nothing
more than a way to directly apply formtting changes to text. That
Robin wrote:
Really? In my experience, I don't agree. But again, I am not an expert on
creating and using styles on hodgepodge documents.
Maybe I should work for the company you do, since you don't know how
to do your job.
[All of the scenrios you have described are trivial to solve. ]
Robin wrote:
I can come up with many examples where styles don't work for me or other
people I work with.
Then there's just no hope left for you ;-)
Greetings,
Cor
--
Cor Nouws
www.nouenoff.nl - www.bsooo.nl - http://nl.openoffice.org
Open. For business.
Jonathon Blake wrote:
I might have customized my keyboard shortcuts.
Go Format Styles Catalog
That menu option has been dropped from 2.0.
I can come up with many examples where styles don't work for me or other
people I work with.
I have yet to see an example of where styles do
Robin Laing wrote:
Jallan wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
I quite believe that. But all that is left in OOo Writer is the
results of that misinterpretation, not the codes, which you therefore
need not worry about in fixing the problem. If there are no codes to
be jumbled, no-one can jumble
Rod wrote:
Go Format Styles Catalog
That menu option has been dropped from 2.0.
It was renamed, and another step added in OOo 2.0. It is availble
thru the menu, though.
Answer: You can't do it; at least not in Writer. And this isn't a
I've done it using OOo 1.1.3-ZA.
It took me a while
Naomi Kramer wrote:
Hi Rod,
I'm not really following this debate, but noticed something in your post
that I wanted to comment on. Relative styles ARE possible in
OpenOffice... they're just not intuitive. At all! Give me a yell if
you're wanting/trying to set them up.
- Naomi
I'm curious
Jallan wrote:
(such as margin settings) through direct formatting, only by changing page
styles.
i) It is possible to change mrgins, using paragraph styles;
ii) Margins can be reset in OOo, using direct formatting.
But most page attributes can not be reset using direct formtting.
page
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Rod wrote:
Go Format Styles Catalog
That menu option has been dropped from 2.0.
It was renamed, and another step added in OOo 2.0. It is availble
thru the menu, though.
Not that I can find.
Answer: You can't do it; at least not in Writer. And this isn't a
On 28/03/2006, at 2:55 PM, Rod Engelsman wrote:
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Rod wrote:
SNIP!
Thus far you have given run-in headings: [Issue # 39582, if you want
to vote for it.]
It can be currently done in OOo, but it is messy, amongst other
things.
What other examples do you have?
It's
Naomi Kramer wrote:
Hi Rod,
Create a character style, making only one selection - eg. change font
from Regular to Italic. Click on OK to save it. You'll find that the
default settings are disregarded, and only the setting you changed (ie,
italic) is applied to the text.
Does that work the
Bruce Byfield wrote:
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 12:05 -0700, Robin Laing wrote:
Don't forget to add in the create the necessary styles to achieve what
you have to achieve. This is the biggest problem with styles. You
have to know what the individual styles do. You don't need to setup a
style
Robin Laing wrote:
WP uses a code at each location to represent the change that is being
applied. This code represents one single property change. There is a
close code at the end of the selection. On importing and exporting,
cutting and pasting, these codes can get jumbled over time. I
Max G. Kluth wrote:
The beauty with the codes was that you could see exactly what went on where
and how. And it was especially beautious sic that one could search and
replace the codes for a quick and dirty job. Try that with styles. I did,
so I know. But in different programmes, of course.
I
Jallan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Max G. Kluth wrote:
: The beauty with the codes was that you could see exactly what went on
where
: and how. And it was especially beautious sic that one could search
and
: replace the codes for a quick and dirty job. Try that
On Tue, 2006-03-21 at 19:17 -0500, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote:
Barrie Backhurst wrote:
On Tue, 2006-03-21 at 07:19 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote:
I'm just a simple-minded semi-geek, but this question keeps bothering me
as I see the ongoing debate re reveal codes:
Isn't this all
Archbishop John Missing wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Ah, more time, more time. I need more time. :) I never have enough
time. It is quicker to grab the file and find a unused Win computer
to make the necessary changes.
If the solution is to use a different operating system and
Keith Bates wrote:
I used to use WP way back when, and occasionally I would use Reveal
Codes. But that was only ever because something had gone wrong with
on-the-fly formatting and I couldn't work out why a section that should
be bold wasn't bold (for example). Usually there was some strange
On Thursday March 23 2006 10:19 am, Robin Laing wrote:
Archbishop John Missing wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Ah, more time, more time. I need more time. :) I never have enough
time. It is quicker to grab the file and find a unused Win computer
to make the necessary changes.
If the
Archbishop John Missing wrote:
Before this discussion moves on to another list, I think I should point
out who a user is: the only reason for the product to be produced and
the only one who can judge the quality of the product. If the product is
not meeting the users needs, then it is
Joe wrote:
I personally has used styles, but styles do not always apply in all cases.
Can you give _specific_ examples of where one can not apply styles,
and thuse has to use direct formatting?
So, we must use the bold, italics, etc... So, this is where reveal
codeswould come in handy.
Jallan wrote:
Joe Hogan wrote:
Hello,
THis discussion should really be moved to discuss or social. However, I
see that some of you really like WP so I thought that the following
might encourage you to accept OOo as it is and go on to other more
important things.
While you might
Dan Lewis wrote:
On Thursday March 23 2006 10:19 am, Robin Laing wrote:
Archbishop John Missing wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Ah, more time, more time. I need more time. :) I never have enough
time. It is quicker to grab the file and find a unused Win computer
to make the necessary
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Joe wrote:
I personally has used styles, but styles do not always apply in all cases.
Can you give _specific_ examples of where one can not apply styles,
and thuse has to use direct formatting?
So, we must use the bold, italics, etc... So, this is where reveal
Robin Laing wrote:
If you do allot of importing, cutting and general work with different
formats of documents, the issue of strange effects are common. That
stray token or formatting that was part of the original document is now
inserted inside your nicely stylized document causing a problem.
I want to answer this but the discussion should really be on the
general/discuss list so I'm cross-posting there.
Robin Laing wrote:
The styles and formatting window on my version of OO does not show all
the formats of the style selected. I can open the Modify dialog to see
what the
Robin Laing wrote:
Dan Lewis wrote:
On Thursday March 23 2006 10:19 am, Robin Laing wrote:
Archbishop John Missing wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
Ah, more time, more time. I need more time. :) I never have enough
time. It is quicker to grab the file and find a unused Win computer
to make
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