Periodinc dumping of H seems not true for me.
the tank would be empty quickly, and it would be dangerous.
DGT clearly said that no Vent is done, except in catastrophic situation,
that induce shutdown and maintenance.
however maybe is there a reversible storage (I have seen here a pattented
device
Here is the link to that
device http://www.ergenics.com/page22.htm
On 25/01/12 07:59, Alain Sepeda wrote:
Periodinc dumping of H seems not true for me.
the tank would be empty quickly, and it would be dangerous.
DGT clearly said that no "Vent" is done,
to what DGT is, and what you described in your posting.
-m
From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:50 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
IMHO, quiescence is caused by deterioration of the micro-powder surface due
Can you provide a citation for that first quote from DGT ?
At any rate, venting 3-4 times per day WOULD BE maintenance, if it is done
to prevent quiescence. And a tank that size would last 200 days before
losing too much pressure - with regular venting.
There are many ways to look at what
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Can you provide a citation for that first quote from DGT ?
http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19t=773
Re: dumping 350 degree hydrogen
Defkalion GT
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:33 pm
Joined: Fri Jun 24,
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Can you provide a citation for that first quote from DGT ?
http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19t=773
This is why I think they
I did not pay close attention to that defkalion post earlier. Reading it
now cheers me up: to me these are thorough and sane (?) answers that go
that extra mile in explaining practical details while at the same time
matching up with the earlier released specs, proving that they are not
Most Interesting ! and it shows the thought given detail, for a product that
is obviously going into production. However, it is also a stretch to think
that they did it solely for environmental or private use concerns. They are
years away from proper permits to sell in the USA or EEC, so that
Can one regen the hydrogen by circulating it through some type of
catalyst, palladium etc to get it re-energized ?
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Can you provide a citation for that first quote from DGT ?
** **
At any rate, venting 3-4 times
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
T
Message -
From: Axil Axil
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
IMHO, quiescence is caused by deterioration of the micro-powder surface due
to inadequate heat control.
I speculate that DGT has move the heat
Message -
From: Axil Axil
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
IMHO, quiescence is caused by deterioration of the micro-powder surface due
to inadequate heat control.
I speculate that DGT has move the heat
From: Chemical Engineer
* Can one regen the hydrogen by circulating it through some type of
catalyst, palladium etc to get it re-energized ?
Very interesting question/speculation. In fact you may have hit on an
important detail.
This probably gets back to QCD and gauge bosons - and how
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
We do not need to specify how it is recouped
(regauged) yet, but the route is surely encompassed in one of the
definitions of ZPE (i.e. Dirac's negative energy 'sea').
Are you growing a Beard(en)? 'Regauged' was/is his
of the electrons in the
element?
-Mark
_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:18 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
From: Chemical Engineer
* Can one regen the hydrogen
-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton
... suppose it's those slightly different mass protons which are giving up
mass that is not replenished by PAMD's sea. It would mean that new H2 would
need to be added to the mix to get more ragged [sic - rugged?] proton
mass.
If Rossi restarts
From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
1) When you refer to the variable mass of a proton, are you thinking about
H, or protons in all elements?
To be honest, this hypothesis really has not gotten beyond hydrogen protons,
so far.
2) If the mass of a proton = m_sub_p +- m_sub_v , would the variability
evacuation. If the hydrogen can be purged regularly, some very
precise filtering would be necessary to prevent aerosolising nano-nickel
particles and fouling any such relief valve
From: jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11
such relief valve
From: jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:14:53 -0800
-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton
... suppose it's those slightly different mass protons which are
giving up
mass
how easily
hydrogen can go through what appears to be solid.
Even stainless shim stock works for this purpose. You do not have to use
palladium as the proton conductor.
From: Robert Leguillon
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Earlier in the thread, hydrogen was mentioned
I think Rossi's best
chance is to stop giving out contradicting information /
statements. A couple of weeks ago the home e-cat was going to ship
at the end of this year, then yesterday he states that it won't be
for another 12-18 months. What happened? There is
Probably Rossi has some NI persons on the controlling front...? If
Rossis statement about production facility planning is true there must
be other engineers involved (although the thought of Rossi doing every
single piece of engineering on himself makes me laugh :))
Perhaps (my theory):
From what I understand
with regards to DGT's licensing, is that the license fee gives you
all the necessary info to start the production. So all you need to
do is find a premises of sufficient size and then DGT will give
the blue prints for the manufacturing
Rossi would have all the money he could ever want from any one of several
thousand large multinationals or governments by next week if he did a
single proper black box test similar to Jan-Jun 2011 demos (no surrounding
water box) but with proper independently installed and recorded calorimetry
by
I'm not so surprised.
LENR is not rocket science once you read the serious but rejected papers on
the subject...
Maybe more simple than usual metallurgy.
LENR should be called solid state fusion, like transistors were name at the
beginning.
then you have engineering. their job take some time, but
Thank you, Robert. This is essentially what I have been saying for many
weeks: Rossi has the ability to achieve a short run of nearly infinite COP-
6-8 hours, after which there is inevitable quiescence. That is both his
problem and his ace-in-the-hole. He has not shown an ability to move beyond
I think you're right
Jones. Once DGT have their verified test results published Rossi
will be under a lot of pressure as all attention will then be
diverted to DGT and there success. Rossi may just realise this
(with a little help from his wife) and try do
Jones,
I also agree. However one question: Why does DGTs reactor provide an
inferior ratio? As far as I remember, DGT claims a COP larger than 20
for a single reactor, whereas Rossi speaks of 6.
Wolf
Thank you, Robert. This is essentially what I have been saying for
many weeks: Rossi has
Wolf,
This comes under the category of 'puffery' and it probably relates to net
gain, if there is any truth to it.
Obviously if one can achieve lots of heat without input - COP is infinite.
However, when you factor in the quiescent period and the startup delay then
the average over an
The issue I have with with Rossi's device is the high electricity
demand required to start off the E-Cat and the length of time
required to get it going and then the periodic electric demand to
keep it going. In comparison DGT's system seems draw much lower
power to
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote:
Rossi would have all the money he could ever want from any one of several
thousand large multinationals or governments by next week if he did a
single proper black box test similar to Jan-Jun 2011 demos . . .
Maybe. Maybe not. Many cold fusion
From: Energy Liberator: The issue I have with Rossi's device is the high
electricity demand required to start off the E-Cat .
You may recall that DGT uses a heat transfer fluid, not water.
One can employ a reservoir of hot fluid for faster startup, and this bulk
reservoir can serve
temperature for efficient
output. This is just my opinion, but I think the DGT design is more ideal.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Energy Liberator energylibera...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 10:39 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
The issue I have
Thanks for the explanation. I knew DGT were using a heat transfer
fluid but didn't realise they were preheating it to assist with the
start up.
"...The
lack of steady gain is part of the larger problem of
quiescence.
The active material goes in
Being fast to start and avoiding meltdown mean that they have a very good,
nearly optimal control.
Maybe part of the secret is classic control theory, helping to design the
optimal retro-action, once you know the core thermal parameters...
but being also able to work without cooling, with nudist
No such thing as a magnetically transparent steel (or any conductor for
that matter) RF will not pass through a conductive material. And for the
same reason high frequency magnetic fields will not penetrate any metal by
more than a fraction of a mm. For a bit of a guide as to what sort of
[mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:22 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
From: Energy Liberator: The issue I have with Rossi's device is the high
electricity demand required to start off the E-Cat .
You may recall that DGT uses a heat
** **
*From:* Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:22 AM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
** **
*From:* Energy Liberator: The issue I have with Rossi's device is the
high electricity demand required to start off
alive. A low frequency magnetic field could penetrate a modest
conductor.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Being fast to start and avoiding
thanks for the data.
of course RFG could not get through a big piece of metal,
but low frequency magnetic field could pass through, if the metal is not
too ferromagnetic,
and cause induction current in a resistive ferromagnetic nickel powder (but
also in the metal around...)...
but your
, Jan 24, 2012 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Being fast to start and avoiding meltdown mean that they have a very good,
nearly optimal control.
Maybe part of the secret is classic control theory, helping to design the
optimal retro-action, once you know the core thermal
On 24 January 2012 19:40, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I agree that they must have a well designed and functioning control unit to
prevent meltdown.
If quiescence is a reality, and *if* it will require a scientific/QM
understanding, the I don't think any amount of 'control
conductor.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Being fast to start and avoiding meltdown mean that they have a very
good, nearly optimal control
@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
On 24 January 2012 19:40, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I agree that they must have a well designed and functioning control unit to
prevent meltdown.
If quiescence is a reality, and *if* it will require a scientific/QM
understanding
DGT could use a magnetic stirrer with small magnet rods in the powder.
Or their solution could simply be the geometry of the kernel itself.
Possibly they inject a puff of new hydrogen to stir the powder.
T
Iverson-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net]
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:40 PM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
** **
On 24 January 2012 19:40, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I agree that they must have a well designed
I don't have the answer, but it was my assumption, about control.
Quiescence does not seems to be a problem with DGT according to their talk
and (more important) to their test protocol (which does talk about
continuous heat).
2012/1/24 Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net
Question:
Mark,
The first question that must be answered is: it the Ni-H phenomena Quantum
Mechanical in nature, or is it Thermonuclear, on a reduced scale?
There are some that still believe Ni-H is thermonuclear and in fact, Pd-D
could be. In fact W-L theory tries hard not to be forced into making
@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
That would be my guess. A lump of powder might quickly get hotspots and
meltdown. If you can keep a fluidized bed going the heating would be
uniform. Maybe that is why defkalion showed that test reactor with a window
in it to see when the powder
From Jones:
There are some that still believe Ni-H is thermonuclear and in fact, Pd-D
could be. In fact W-L theory tries hard not to be forced into making that
decision, and has QM features - but if the defining detail of that theory
involves neutrons, neutron capture - and subsequent
Cold Fusion term SHOULD be used as a way to ridiculized the past critics.
it is clear for me that what happens is solid-state nuclear reaction
(hot or cold is not the problem, like for semiconductors, solid state is
the needed environment, even it is solid surface that is important).
however the
this forum different from most, and is a concept that trolls
don't understand, nor respect.
-Mark
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:27 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Mark,
The first question that must
understand, nor respect.
-Mark
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:27 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Mark,
The first question that must be answered is: it the Ni-H phenomena Quantum
Mechanical in nature
the picture is all about???
-Mark
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:16 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Mark - I thought you found the entanglement paper. Or . did you not make
the possible inter-connection
-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
** **
Mark - I thought you found the “entanglement” paper. Or … did you not make
the possible inter-connection between ‘entanglement’ and ‘tunneling’?
** **
Anyway, thanks goes out to whoever brought up the issue of quantum
???
It is what makes this forum different from most, and is a concept that
trolls don’t understand, nor respect.
** **
-Mark
** **
*From:* Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:27 PM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
snip
Best regards to all:
I am happy to still be here having narrowly avoided the kill list. I
apologize for a singular, ill-advised, and unintentional indiscretion humbly
begging forgiveness with an earnest plea for redemption if that helps.
Axil
IMHO, quiescence is caused by deterioration of the micro-powder surface due
to inadequate heat control.
I speculate that DGT has move the heat producing powder zone to the reactor
vessel wall. The powder is mechanically affixed to the reactor vessel wall
with excellent heat transfer
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