* Aryeh Gregor simetrical+wikil...@gmail.com [Thu, 24 Sep 2009
15:40:46 -0400]:
Templates and refs are by far the worst offenders, for sticking tons
of content in the page that doesn't have any obvious relationship to
the actual content. Getting rid of them would be a huge step forward.
But
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Dmitriy Sintsov ques...@rambler.ru wrote:
What's complex in '''bold''' and ==headings== ? Here when we've
It *looks* complex. That's pretty much most of the problem. Here's our
desired use case:
1) User views a page that is deficient in some way.
2) User decides
* Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com [Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:13:51 +1000]:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Dmitriy Sintsov ques...@rambler.ru
wrote:
What's complex in '''bold''' and ==headings== ? Here when we've
It *looks* complex. That's pretty much most of the problem. Here's our
desired
David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:fbad4e140909241512h5c56dd09xe6d3d7de0603f...@mail.gmail.com...
2009/9/24 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com:
Brian wrote:
* wikitext parsing would be much faster if the language was well defined
and
we could use flex/bison/etc...
Have
-Original Message-
From: wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
Dmitriy Sintsov
Sent: 25 September 2009 07:01
To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for editing template calls
within pages
*
2009/9/25 Dmitriy Sintsov ques...@rambler.ru:
You haven't convinced me. I am not the most bright person in the world
(my coding skills aren't top - I am more of humanitarian brain person
actually) but it was really easy to me to understand basics of wikitext.
Just in few minutes. Also, such
2009/9/25 vanessa lee q...@ica.stc.sh.cn:
What form are articles stored in database?
Raw wiki text, plus many tables containing metadata. See
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Database_layout
-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
___
Wikitech-l
* Jared Williams jared.willia...@ntlworld.com [Fri, 25 Sep 2009
10:49:54 +0100]:
The problem is the ambiguity with italics, (''italics''). So the
current parser doesn't really make its final decision on what should
be bold or what should be italic until it hits a newline. If there are
an
2009/9/25 Dmitriy Sintsov ques...@rambler.ru:
Let's assume an odd occurence of ''' will be converted to wmf:bold and
an even occurence ''' to /wmf:bold (begin/end of the node)? Non-paired
occurence will simply cause XML parsing error - there should not be
uneven number of '' or '''.
The point
OK, I see. And the other questions?
If I edit a page,Whether the page_id change or not?
-Original Message-
From: Petr Kadlec petr.kad...@gmail.com
To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:30:34 +0200
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Data Processing
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:28 PM, 李琴 q...@ica.stc.sh.cn wrote:
OK, I see. And the other questions?
If I edit a page,Whether the page_id change or not?
page_latest will point to the relevant rev_id. The text will most
likely be saved in the text table. Article::doEdit and Revision are
the most
Does anybody actually use Special:UploadMogile? Should we try to fix
it to work with the new upload code or just get rid of it?
Bryan
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-Original Message-
From: wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
Dmitriy Sintsov
Sent: 25 September 2009 11:09
To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for editing template calls
within pages
*
2009/9/25 Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com:
The point is that wikitext doesn't *have* parsing errors. The parser
is very tolerant in that it tries to resolve 'invalid' and ambiguous
constructs by some combination of guessing what was probably intended
and trying not to mess up the rest of
2009/9/25 Dmitriy Sintsov ques...@rambler.ru:
XML is used to store human-produced rich formatted text by many
standalone and web apps. XML parsers are also very strict and spitting
errors. As it's been mentioned recently, XML is really good for bots,
too, for that reason (the input is
2009/9/25 李琴 q...@ica.stc.sh.cn:
If i just edit a page's section.Then ,What will be saved in the text
table, the entire page's text or just the edited section's text ?
The entire page text, which is the result of merging the previous page
text with the changes you’ve made to the
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm using Chrome 3.0.195.21, and have long found that some characters
in Wikipedia render as boxes. One example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_with_stroke renders as box
(minuscule: box)...
As the article says, the
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Jacopo Corbetta
jacopo.corbe...@gmail.com wrote:
(HTML-style headings do not show up in the TOC, an odd
wikitext feature which we surely don't want newbies to use).
HTML-style headings do show up in the TOC, and have for a few years as
far as I know.
Hoi,
The notion that our editors should decide if a font is well enough
supported is a bit off. It is saying you cannot properly write your
language because
I do appreciate that TECHNICALLY you are right. However what is needed is
people adding the new glyphs to the font. This is no rocket
The entire page text has been stroed in text table. But the recent change
page just shows the edited text.
Then,how do these text stroed?
I want to see the content(BLOB) of old_text fiels in text table.
What should I do?
Thanks
-Original Message-
From: Petr Kadlec
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote:
On this point, I think we need:
* Easier management of non-PHP skins (i.e. CSS and images only)
* Automated CSS generation (per original post)
* Easier ways to modify the document structure, with less PHP
involved.
Jared Williams wrote:
The problem is the ambiguity with italics, (''italics''). So the
current parser doesn't really make its final decision on
what should be bold or what should be italic until it hits a
newline. If there are an even number of both bold and italics
then it assumes it
2009/9/25 李琴 q...@ica.stc.sh.cn:
The entire page text has been stroed in text table. But the recent change
page just shows the edited text.
Then,how do these text stroed?
It is not stored. It is evaluated during every diff view by comparing
(diffing) the two revisions (see
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote:
On this point, I think we need:
* Easier management of non-PHP skins (i.e. CSS and images only)
* Automated CSS generation (per original post)
* Easier ways to modify the document structure, with
IMHO the question, in this case, is not how to build the perfect
wikitext grammar/parser, but how to ease editing of wikitext through
editor enhancements. For that, it seems sufficient to cover the vast
majority of cases instead of writing a perfect solution, as long as it
falls back to ugly
2009/9/25 Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com:
As to the issue of getting possible template variable names: Why not
* load the wikitext of the template in the background
* remove all nowiki, noinclude, etc
* get everything that looks like {{{NAME| or {{{NAME}}}
* remove known magic
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
The notion that our editors should decide if a font is well enough
supported is a bit off. It is saying you cannot properly write your
language because
No, it's not. We're talking about a specific article
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote:
I think it makes sense to provide some way to modify the DOM after the
base skin is finished making HTML. Some things can be done with CSS,
but you don't want to be making heavy use of #id:after{content:...}
to add
Hoi,
This specific character mentioned in the article is used to write the
Tanimuca-Retuarã language. This is specified in the article. itself.
Languages that need characters that are missing in fonts that are in general
use are not isolated affairs. In the end there is only one solution; we
I believe that this is simply bad WYSIWYG editors at work.
- Chris
2009/9/24 Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs
I have noticed that a number (hundreds) of links to Wikipedia exist
that are of the form http://xx.wikipedia.org/wiki/whatever.htm See this
Google search for an overview:
This thread has gotten WAY off topic - so I wanted to try and help
clarify a few things and then get it back on-topic if at all possible.
* As Roan mentioned, we are planning on implementing a *wiki-text
*editing interface with collapsible blocks for template calls and
tables. We
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Trevor Parscal tpars...@wikimedia.orgwrote:
* The topic is supposed to be on Template Editing which is, at least
in the way it's being proposed, a little less of a stale topic -
so where is all the energy on that front? We have an XML format to
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs wrote:
I have noticed that a number (hundreds) of links to Wikipedia exist
that are of the form http://xx.wikipedia.org/wiki/whatever.htm See this
Google search for an overview:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:48:04 -0400, Aryeh Gregor wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
On this point, I think we need:
* Easier management of non-PHP skins (i.e. CSS and images only) *
Automated CSS generation (per original post) * Easier ways to
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
Also, I am quite serious about my point that an entirely
new language interface specification will be added to MediaWiki and that it
will be widely adopted and propagate throughout the wikisphere, much like
parser functions, and in the end will make
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
Also, I am quite serious about my point that an entirely
new language interface specification will be added to MediaWiki and that
it
will be widely adopted and propagate
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
Also, I am quite serious about my point that an entirely
new language interface specification will
Brian wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Trevor Parscal
tpars...@wikimedia.orgwrote:
* The topic is supposed to be on Template Editing which is, at least
in the way it's being proposed, a little less of a stale topic -
so where is all the energy on that front? We have an
Are the XML specifications intended as?
A) A required addition to current and future templates
OR
B) An optional addition to aid / facilitate the functioning of some
advanced tools
The latter case seems far more achievable than the former case.
-Robert Rohde
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:49 PM,
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Alex mrzmanw...@gmail.com wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Trevor Parscal tpars...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
* The topic is supposed to be on Template Editing which is, at least
in the way it's being proposed, a little less of a
On 9/25/09 1:18 PM, Robert Rohde wrote:
Are the XML specifications intended as?
A) A required addition to current and future templates
OR
B) An optional addition to aid / facilitate the functioning of some
advanced tools
The latter case seems far more achievable than the former case.
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
I am not here saying that it is a bad feature, not a bit. In fact I have
previously advocated on this list for the ability for users to specify
form-like interfaces. What I am saying is that I think it's premature. There
is a tradeoff that needs to be
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
I am not here saying that it is a bad feature, not a bit. In fact I have
previously advocated on this list for the ability for users to specify
form-like interfaces. What I
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
However powerful it is, I'm not sure we can really rule out future
incompatibility as you suggest by simply stating that we can easily
forwardport. This feature is intended to hack a fix on top of the usability
issues inherent in templates. Every time
Nikola Smolenski smolensk at eunet.rs writes:
What I am going to say is going to be the worst heresy, but could this
problem be solved by gradually migrating to a new wiki markup, for
example **bold** and //italic//? This markup is more logical and easier
to remember, more used outside of
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
However powerful it is, I'm not sure we can really rule out future
incompatibility as you suggest by simply stating that we can easily
forwardport. This feature is intended
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Jacopo Corbetta
jacopo.corbe...@gmail.com wrote:
(HTML-style headings do not show up in the TOC, an odd
wikitext feature which we surely don't want newbies to use).
HTML-style headings do show up in the TOC, and have for a few years as
On 9/25/09 11:39 AM, Brian wrote:
I do think that sufficient energy has been directed at this topic. People
have complained that xml is harder to edit that wikitext and that it is too
complicated, among other things.
You seem to be talking about something utterly unrelated to this thread...
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Brion Vibber br...@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 9/25/09 11:39 AM, Brian wrote:
I do think that sufficient energy has been directed at this topic. People
have complained that xml is harder to edit that wikitext and that it is
too
complicated, among other things.
2009/9/25 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
* This will fundamentally change mediawiki and the consequences of this
feature have not been considered
* It will support the creation of new interfaces from interfaces, simply by
creating templates that create new templates and using the interface
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
This specific character mentioned in the article is used to write the
Tanimuca-Retuarã language. This is specified in the article. itself.
Ethnologue says it has 300 speakers, if I'm reading it correctly:
Brian wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Trevor Parscal wrote:
* The topic is supposed to be on Template Editing which is, at least
in the way it's being proposed, a little less of a stale topic -
so where is all the energy on that front? We have an XML format to
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Steve Sanbeg ssan...@ask.com wrote:
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. XSLT works on DOM trees, so
malformed XML shouldn't really apply. Of course, the standard command
line processors create this tree with a standard parser, usually an XML
parser. But
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Happy-melon happy-me...@live.com wrote:
Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu wrote in message
news:9839a05c0909251423j7152ae51y34a6a9e586f4f...@mail.gmail.com...
You have conveniently ignored the rest of my points, which are not, as
you
have claimed, off
On 9/25/09 2:23 PM, Brian wrote:
You have conveniently ignored the rest of my points, which are not, as you
have claimed, off topic. (and you love to jump into threads and claim they
have become off topic, historically, with only the points that you are
considering being on topic.)
I felt no
2009/9/25 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com:
Those descriptions will have to be edited by the same user base that
edit all other pages. Even if they are power users, it's not easy to
write correct XML on the wiki textarea. We would need to create an
editor for the language being created so a
On 9/25/09 3:39 PM, Roan Kattouw wrote:
2009/9/25 Platonidesplatoni...@gmail.com:
Those descriptions will have to be edited by the same user base that
edit all other pages. Even if they are power users, it's not easy to
write correct XML on the wiki textarea. We would need to create an
editor
2009/9/26 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
Roan, sorry that the idea is pretty hard to convey, I'll try again.
The basic idea is that you can create templates using templates
(just using current
tech). It's easy, you just pass parameters to a template that control
its output, and this
output
-Original Message-
From: wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
Roan Kattouw
Sent: 25 September 2009 23:39
To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for editing template calls
within pages
-Original Message-
From: wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikitech-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
Aryeh Gregor
Sent: 25 September 2009 23:01
To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] JS2 design (was Re: Working towards
branchingMediaWiki
Roan Kattouw wrote:
2009/9/25 Platonides:
Those descriptions will have to be edited by the same user base that
edit all other pages. Even if they are power users, it's not easy to
write correct XML on the wiki textarea. We would need to create an
editor for the language being created so a
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/9/26 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu:
Roan, sorry that the idea is pretty hard to convey, I'll try again.
The basic idea is that you can create templates using templates
(just using current
tech). It's easy,
Hello.
Heres a screenshot of me editing the wikipedia:
http://zerror.com/unorganized/crap/nogoodenough.png
All the webmasters on this mail list will spot the problem with this
text in 1 second: is unreadable. The space betwen lines, the lines
length, the complexity of the text... Is really
How a webmaster can make that text better? well.. you need to stop
using the HTML textarea widget. And emulate it with divs, css and
javascript. You need to colorize the code. Nowdays *ALL* good code
Or use a canvas..
enter Bespin!
https://bespin.mozilla.com/
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Trevor Parscal wrote:
* The topic is supposed to be on Template Editing which is, at least
in the way it's being proposed, a little less of a stale topic -
so
On 9/25/09 6:07 PM, Daniel Schwen wrote:
How a webmaster can make that text better? well.. you need to stop
using the HTML textarea widget. And emulate it with divs, css and
javascript. You need to colorize the code. Nowdays *ALL* good code
Or use a canvas..
enter Bespin!
On 9/25/09 6:11 PM, Robert Rohde wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Platonidesplatoni...@gmail.com wrote:
Brian wrote:
XML is hard to edit. That's the reason wikitext was created, to fix
the issues with the, even easier, html.
Now, it is being proposed to add a XML processing on top of
thanks for the constructive response :) ... comments inline
Tim Starling wrote:
I agree we should move things into a global object ie: $j and all our
components / features should extend that object. (like jquery plugins).
That is the direction we are already going.
I think it would be
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