Drew,
Being in favor of not limiting bandwidth may seem very altruistic but
I'm not sure you are aware of the bandwidth/throughput limitations of
todays wireless equipment used for last mile access. It's not a question
of fitting the business model; it's a question of fitting today's
current
You have hit the problem directly on the head. You think a simple
Canopy AP is going to solve the problem? Let's say you are allocating
10Mbps downlink on this AP... that would mean 5 customers per AP (@
2Mbps each). Nobody in this market can survive on those ratios.
This service needs capped
Yes. I am up to 25 gig this month. Course me and my wife have been
watching older TV shows over the weekend. ;)
--
* Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP
Couple of things to mention here...
I believe (not certain!) that Netflix will do lower quality streams based on
your downstream connection. How low it will go I can't say.
If a customer wants something they have to pay for it. The majority of
customers go with the smallest package (something
I dont think that there is a PTMP wireless platform available to anyone
that will support multi users streaming 2Mbps+ off of a single AP. If this
is available I would like to know whose gear it is and what bank is going
to lend the money to revamp an entire network.
We have always had
It is important to understand the business impact on this. If you can
deliver these speeds, this also could be a method to enable upgrades
of your service. I.e. Customer calls in and says their netflix video is
bad, if they do not have at least 2-3 meg , and you offer that speed,
upgrade
I have several customer's that stream some kind of data (I've always assumed
it was a patch or new game) from Valve's servers. These customers are all
on one AP - I think they're a family of gamers. Each of them do a good
2meg+ during the night time or weekends.
Josh Luthman
Office:
Since I moved out here onto the side of the coastal mountains in a
little cabin, I have not bought cable or dish. I use my internet.
One thing that does happen is I watch a lot less tv and really now only
watch some movies, maybe one or two a week. Mostly I watch the news
www.foxnews.com or
I think the canopy 450 will do something like 30 down and 10 up. So that could
give you 20 simultaneously which statistically could work if you had 50-100 on
an AP.
- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:30 AM
I have a customer running behind a Trango 900 radio. She explains that many
web pages (those heavy with images) never fully load and neither of her two
email accounts work (using Outlook, the outgoing message just sits in the
outbox).
I have thousands of pings to this radio from the core router
You have hit the problem directly on the head. You think a simple Canopy AP
is going to solve the problem? Let's say you are allocating 10Mbps downlink
on this AP... that would mean 5 customers per AP (@ 2Mbps each). Nobody in
this market can survive on those ratios.
This service needs
I think we will eventually see people just leave constant streams open day
and night. How many of you leave your TV on much of the time whether you are
watching it or not? This throws off the over-subscription model which
relates to how many people are using the service at one time. When we start
Cat 5 cable is marginal or connector is not crimped tight.
Josh Luthman wrote:
I have a customer running behind a Trango 900 radio. She explains that many
web pages (those heavy with images) never fully load and neither of her two
email accounts work (using Outlook, the outgoing message just
Can anyone provide the ASN the streams come from?
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Dennis Burgess [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Josh,
Can you have the Mikrotik ping your core? (it sounds like you have
only done the other direction) Also, try full size ping packets.
Sometimes short packets are fine, and big ones cause failures.
After having a batch of bad consumer wifi routers, I have started
hooking up a few
The Mikrotik could ping the core, however, the customer put their Linksys
back in place.
This customer does need WiFi, unfortunately, they prefer the Linksys over
the Mikrotik.
Out of 200 pings so far I've lost 1 and 1 jumped in latency. Trango's
loopback test (sends frames/packets back and
Switchport the AP is connected to?
Bad cabling at the SM or AP?
Bad power supply on the SM or AP?
__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent:
OK, then buy a Canopy 430.
- Original Message -
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] NetFlix Streaming Bandwidth Information
rantThis is why we need gear capable of higher
Maybe I will, but there's how many vendors out there and only 2 (Mikrotik
with an Atheros radio and Motorola) have a product out there that is
anywhere close to what we need these days.
When I first started in this industry (which many of you have been here
longer than I), the thought that a
The switch, AP, SM/SU and power supplies have all been replaced.
Cabling has not been changed, though.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer
On Mon,
rantThis is why we need gear capable of higher throughputs. Too many
WISPs out there don't press their manufacturers. They'd rather just put up
a couple Canopy radios and complain on a list about how they can't deliver
X, Y, or Z to a customer.
I have complained to manufacturers. WiMAX is
I read about a model somewhere that might work. The content providers paid the
ISP a percentage for delivery of the content. Now I might could live with that
if the economics worked out.
Scottie
-- Original Message --
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:31:41AM -0600, Mike Hammett wrote:
I will not purchase another AP unless it is able to deliver 40 mbit of
throughput, end of story. Fortunately for me, they're out there...
Mikrotik can (though uses a lot of spectrum). Deliberant is working on it.
I believe the
Mike,
There are real physical limits to the amount of throughput that a radio
channel (X MHz wide) can handle. Ranting at manufacturers isn't going to
change this very much. You can only flow so much water through a pipe.
Increase the pressure without increasing the pipe diameter and the pipe
Here's my two cents on the subject. I've been reading everyone's posts and I
think you all have good insight. Interesting enough, I started as a teenager
back in the early 80's selling satellite dishes (the large big ugly ones) to
people in residential areas and got quite a kick out of
There is a limit to physics, yes. However, we obviously have not met that
if some manufacturers can produce products that do it.
MT N-Streme can do up to 2.25 bit/Hz throughput. Orthogon Spectra can do 10
bit/Hz, though I don't know if that's radio traffic or throughput. As it
turns out,
Scheduled TV belongs on satellite. Satellite is the worst use for on demand,
time shifting, DVR, whatever term you want to use for viewing content that the
station isn't sending out at that exact moment.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
From: Travis
I couldn't imagine how the logistics of this would work. What makes
sense is if your customer uses more bandwidth, then they pay for it.
Everything else is just an inefficient way to do the same.
Lets say you are going to charge $150/Mb/month for 95% usage (just
picked a number). If the
Multicast is not going to solve anything, video already has very
efficient multicast it is called satellite, cable and broadcast TV.
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
Todd Brandenburg wrote:
Here's my two cents on the subject. I've been reading everyone's posts and I
think you all
The billing model is irrelevant if the gear can't do it in the first place.
You could charge $10/megabyte transferred and it would be meaningless if you
can't deliver what the customer wants.
Yes, the standard billing model needs to change, but using it as an
artificial barrier isn't exactly
I agree with Mike as far as the physics limitations.
Video cards for PCs are the same thing. They pushed the technology of PCI,
AGP, PCI-Express before the video cards even came close to reaching the bus'
capacity.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Jack,
You are absolutely right about this. In the first email you asked if that
had been figured in to my thinking of open unfiltered access. It has.
Spectrum is a valuable resource and there is only so much of it to go around
in each of the allocated frequency sets that are available today. As
While there is progress to be made in spectrum efficiency there really
is a limit of bits/Hz that can be transmitted and once we reach it the
only option is to get more Hz. Hz are expensive both in terms of
spectrum available (have to start buying once unlicensed is utilized)
and equipment.
Mike Hammett wrote:
The billing model is irrelevant if the gear can't do it in the first place.
You could charge $10/megabyte transferred and it would be meaningless if you
can't deliver what the customer wants.
Wants and willing to pay for a two different things. I want a AC Cobra
and
Charging a customer by their actually usage is the most 'real' method of
billing. In fact the unlimited model is the artificial one that is used
to entice people into buying. If the customer always fully utilized
their $30/month worth of bandwidth you would go broke.
That is a great point.
Don't forget VoIP and it's unlimited calling plan versus ATT and Verizon's
several cents per minute over the last several years.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Jack Unger wrote:
Being in favor of not limiting bandwidth may seem very altruistic
but I'm not sure you are aware of the bandwidth/throughput
limitations of todays wireless equipment used for last mile access.
It's not a question of fitting the business model; it's a
But that's what I am saying... I don't think you can over-subscribe
streaming TV/Movies like you can internet. What happens when someone
wants to watch TV and it doesn't work because there is no bandwidth
available? :(
Travis
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
I think the canopy 450 will do something
Honestly, I don't ever see the model changing to metered billing.
Telephone service isn't that way. Water service (in my area at least)
isn't that way. And yes, some have started, but with 250GB monthly
caps, it's not really even a cap.
Travis
Microserv
Sam Tetherow wrote:
I couldn't
First, just recrimp the ends. If that doesn't do it, replace the
cable. I have had to do that twice in the last 3 months.
Josh Luthman wrote:
The switch, AP, SM/SU and power supplies have all been replaced.
Cabling has not been changed, though.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct:
Hi,
My telephone service is unlimited (home landline with Qwest) and could
be unlimited cell phone with ATT or Sprint. My water is unlimited.
People want "unlimited" service so they don't have to guess what their
bill is going to be. Even my electricity and gas bills can be setup as
Of course they want unlimited. I want unlimited as well. But the issue
we are going to have to deal with is, is everyone going to be willing to
pay for unlimited such that those who are on the top end of the usage
spectrum aren't eating our profit?
How much unused bandwidth do you have on
My telephone service is unlimited (home landline with Qwest) and could be
unlimited cell phone with ATT or Sprint. My water is unlimited.
There is almost always 'fine print' in these unlimited plans.
Unlimited long distance is almost always not completely unlimited.
People want unlimited
Simple as this...
Even if you can supply this bandwidth..
1. Avg Customer usage goes up.
2. Over subscription rate goes down.
3. Network costs go up to meet increased demand
4. Per Sub costs go up due to the higher usage
5. Profit per sub goes down.
Increase back-end costs but no increase
The local Gas Co here has budget billing The bill changes ever 4
months. During the winter its low, and the summer its way high, why.
Winter we use it to heat with, normally I would have 300-400 bills, for
a few months, but the summer we only use it for cooking, so it would be
30-40 bucks!
This is the statement that got me:
One argument that I have had people tell me, is that the ISP should know
this is coming and should have planned for it.
Whether it is through watching the amount of bandwidth used over periods of
time as a trend or doing market research to find out what is
Yep. And I would agree there. I also think, WISPs, and even cable cos
have the issue that the technology will limit their ability to take this
increase rapidly.
--
* Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Depends on where it's coming from. As I said, a 10 GigE to the CDNs (which
is where most of the bandwidth is going to be going these days), the price
is just equipment and cross connects. Public Peering with route servers
(depending on the exchange) gets you 10 GigE for $500 (definitely not
Brian,
Thanks again for this!
A few comments:
(1) I was surprised to see channels 3 4 included, since those are
prohibited everywhere (right?)
(2) you might include a note on your web pages about the 32km canadian
border limitation, also the 40/60km Mexican border limit.
So how much would 10GigE be to your NOC?
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
Mike Hammett wrote:
Depends on where it's coming from. As I said, a 10 GigE to the CDNs (which
is where most of the bandwidth is going to be going these days), the price
is just equipment and cross connects.
John,
I included all the channels because you will need to look at them as
adjacent channels that need to be protected. I could have done a lot more
with this but the time requirement to provide this as a free tool is well
above what I have the capacity to do. That is also why you got the
I was just thinking about the border buffer zones. That should not be too
difficult to create. I'll get to that in a few days and post it as a
separate file. I'll let the list know when it's ready.
Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com
-Original
sigh
We've also started getting a lot of calls from our xbox360 subs. They have
trouble getting or staying connected. Me thinks xbox 360 sucks!
NO calls from playstation or wii customers. Only xbox 360.
I hate ms.
marlon
- Original Message -
From: Dennis Burgess [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have complaints from both Xbox 360 and PS3.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL
Are the stations going to change the channels once they vacate their analog
ones? I thought I heard that once.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday,
That's because no one plays Wii or Playstation online... at least nowhere
near the same number of people. I honestly don't know a single person that
plays Playstation or Wii online, but probably 30 or more that play XBox.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
According to the bottom of page 105, it's 134 km for cochannel operation and
131 km for adjacent channel operation. That means, I guess, that I'm SOL
for channels 13, 14, 15, and 16.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
I think some will but I'm not completely sure. Somewhere there is a DTV
transition database on the FCC web site that may shed more light on the
topic. Just haven't had the time to research all of that.
Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com
All the stations were given an extra set of channels to fire up and operate
the DTV transmitters. Mostly on UHF. This happened years ago and in this
are we have been receiving a digital TV signal for about 8 years. Once the
VHF analog transmitters are switched off, the broadcasters I know
Best practices tell
you to build your network for your needs tomorrow, not for today, not for
yesterday.
Until the cold reality of cash flow and running a profitable business smacks
you right in the face and then you're stuck trying to keep yesterday's network
running as long as possible...
I recently had a customer's system do that. Worked FINE with my laptop and
his iphone.
Was some very strange computer problem. I told them to take the machine to
a shop.
marlon
- Original Message -
From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent:
Since when did the US govt standardize on the metric system? What happened to
inches, feet, and miles? LOL, J/K guys.
Scottie
-- Original Message --
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 24 Nov
All the better reason for the subs to forget about streaming, OOPS!, that is
another thread. I forgot exactly who it was, maybe Patrick Leary, that was
pushing us to upsell our customers to HDTV/digital antennas, anyways... that is
looking like a real good idea.
Scottie
-- Original
I had a physics professor that would allow solutions to problems to be
submitted in any unit measure. Since he had TAs and grad students doing the
grading it was no skin of his nose. Lots of furlongs per fortnight velocity
measurements. Units of photon energy to describe frequency. But when
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
I think the canopy 450 will do something like 30 down and 10 up.
So that could give you 20 simultaneously which statistically could
work if you had 50-100 on an AP.
Ok, so you have 20 people on one AP pulling 2Meg each which is 40
meg stream. If
I have saw spyware and/or trojans cause this. Been a PC technician about 6
times longer than a WISP. As much as it hurts, sometimes these things require a
truckroll and a hookup of your clean laptop to prove it to the client. I think
the original poster said there were more than one PC behind
That is the one thing I haven't tried. I would have to configure their
Outlook settings on my laptop which includes installing Outlook itself...
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to
I deliver 100 mbps wholesale to many rural areas for $3-4K/month type of
figure.
That includes transport.
And stastically, you can oversub it, even with streaming content.
You are never going to have all 20 streaming movies all at the same time.
I am willing to take the chance. That is how we
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Mike Hammett wrote:
Where has the innovation in the last few years gone?/rant
How many in this industry bitch and moan over the cost of gear? How
many would purchase an AP at under $200 and STILL think that's too
high? How many in this industry are willing to purchase
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
I deliver 100 mbps wholesale to many rural areas for $3-4K/month
type of figure. That includes transport. And stastically, you can
oversub it, even with streaming content. You are never going to
have all 20 streaming movies all at the same time. I
You can't oversubscribe it by very much. Most people watch TV from 6:00
to 10:00PM. What happens when they want to watch TV and it just doesn't
work? What will you do then? It's not that it will just be "slow" or
"sluggish" as normal internet services can be when oversubscribed, it
just will
Check out Garrison Utah or Burbank Nevada. Doesn't get much more rural than
that.
Of course I have spent the most part of the last 20 years slowly building a
fiber and microwave network to get to all these areas.
- Original Message -
From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA
OK, maybe not for you. But I am still going to be there trying. And when it
fails you can tell me you told me so.
- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] NetFlix Streaming Bandwidth
I don't think this is entirely true. For us, it becomes a "value"
decision. If there was an AP that would deliver 100Mbps and could
support 1000 subscribers, I would be willing to pay $10,000+ for it
today. There is a real "gap" in the products that are available on the
market:
At the bottom
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
Check out Garrison Utah or Burbank Nevada. Doesn't get much more
rural than that. Of course I have spent the most part of the last
20 years slowly building a fiber and microwave network to get to
all these areas.
1. I never said that you can't get
Where do you rate Ubiquity Nanostations or the Bullet?
- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:32 PM
Subject: [WISPA] WiMax delays?
I don't think this is entirely true. For us, it becomes a value decision.
If
My guess is yes on the WiMAX question. Because it was a buzz word, they could
get investment dollars if you mentioned WiMAX. How many people here are buying
WiMAX because it's the new and fancy?
WiMAX isn't necessarily all that bad if they offered 20 MHz channels for half
the price.
-
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Travis Johnson wrote:
I don't think this is entirely true. For us, it becomes a value
decision. If there was an AP that would deliver 100Mbps and could
support 1000 subscribers, I would be willing to pay $10,000+ for it
today. There is a real gap in the products that are
I must be using a different product line then everyone else here - the
Trango Access 5800 has left quite a bit to be desired - short range and at
most 7mbps throughput. Mikrotik (costing less new then Trango used) easily
outperforms in wireless distance, throughput and (my favorite) capability.
On the same level as Mikrotik... maybe just slightly below (because of
the lack of a proprietary protocol with polling like Nstreme), but above
Linksys, etc.
Travis
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
Where do you rate Ubiquity Nanostations or the Bullet?
- Original Message -
From: Travis
Why not deploy some dragonwave and other high capacity backbone and build
your own network to cheap BW.
Build to St. Louis with a large microwave backbone and you will wholesale
all along its entire length. More than enough to pay for it.
- Original Message -
From: Butch Evans [EMAIL
Josh,
I think this was the point. The Trango 5800 series (the 5830 radio) was
the top of the line product when it first came out (2001 or 2002 I
think). There was nothing else on the market (including Canopy) when
Trango first started shipping this product. However, nothing has been
done with
Butch,
As much as I like Mikrotik (I have been using it for ptp backhauls for
over 4 years now) and recently ptmp for customers, the ptmp is not on
the same level as Canopy or Trango. Having a hardware based scheduler
is something that just can not be done in software. The latest
improvement
If you hang out over at [EMAIL PROTECTED] you will find more than a hundred
WISPs, many of them very small operations from 100-1000 subscribers that are
100% canopy. And generally speaking they are kicking butt and taking names
in their markets. I disagree that Canopy is not marketed to the
Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote:
Simple as this...
Even if you can supply this bandwidth..
1. Avg Customer usage goes up.
2. Over subscription rate goes down.
3. Network costs go up to meet increased demand
4. Per Sub costs go up due to the higher usage
5. Profit per sub
Chuck,
We don't use Canopy just because my competitors are using it. And
really, any more, the customer doesn't care HOW the bandwidth gets
delivered. So why not use a product that can deliver twice the
bandwidth for 1/3 the price? ;)
Travis
Microserv
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
If you hang
I think he's saying that no one has tried hard enough to do it in every
part... People like Chuck are here and there, but few are putting forth the
serious amount of effort to make it happen.
I think in the years coming, the average WISP will be significantly larger
than they are now... not
Obviously my other mail hadn't made it to the list when you sent that, but
I'd estimate you'd only have to string (aerial is significantly cheaper and
has less incidents per mile) 20 miles... you can buy the other 160 or what
have you.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
My numbers are a couple years old, but I'll throw them out there...
$300k for a 20 year IRU on fiber into 3 major carrier hotels in Chicago.
$20k to bring the fiber to my NOC from the route.
$20k - $30k for all optics, routers, etc.
$500/month per carrier hotel for space.
$0 - $500/month per
Amen, nobody ever said you could build it and rest on your laurels.
No small business is safe from changes that come with time.
Evolve or die. I am not going to sit around complaining the sky is falling.
So the cost to meet the future needs of our subscribers is real, it's
not as hard to
There might be your answer. Outlook. Many outlook setups, if
connecting to a Exchange server have allot different setting then a
standard POP. If it is an exchange connection. I would recommend
setting up a connection in your office and giving them 15 min free time
on your net. Make sure it
The very best reason to use canopy is because the competitors are using it. It
can peacefully coexist with other systems due to gps sync. We are in very
tight quarters with a fierce competitor in one very small market. But we never
cause each other technical grief.
What other product can
A lot of folks have a philisophical problem adopting a product that seems to
have been designed to cause interference to other equipment trying to share the
same band.
Tom S.
I don't understand human psychology well enough to even begin to explain why
this is such a polarizing topic.
Butch,
I am not downplaying your response. The problem I am seeing is that my main
competition is two rural cooperatives, the cable comp in my area is virtually
nill. The cable co's are privately owned. I am not sure how they(cooperatives)
are doing it, but they must be getting $$$ to fund
Chuck,
Me again. LOL. I may be totally wrong here. But how much in USF have you
received to service these areas? I know you may prove me to be a dumba$$, but
you, yourself, in response to my past previous posts have said you would never
serve these areas with competition. There has to be a
OK, ouch, not to get OT here, but have you looked at Samsung? Have you looked
at the consumer ratings between the two? Only thing Sony got over them was in
the highest end model's, and again this is like buying Alvarion or Canopy to
UBQT as far as price is concerned.
I may be blind, but I
Scottie Arnett wrote:
Just a side notethe local Co-op requires you to take their landline to
get DSL, we get %95 of our customers who do not want their POS landline and
use their cell phone, but the barriers are still there!
Scottie
Facts are, nobody can succesfully corner 100% of
Drew,
As I've mentioned before - wireless physics does not allow you to
simply and affordably build your network for tomorrow but you do not
yet understand this point. No matter what the customer wants (or
demands) and no matter how much the WISP wants to build a
high-throughput network at a
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
If you hang out over at [EMAIL PROTECTED] you will find more than
a hundred WISPs, many of them very small operations from 100-1000
subscribers that are 100% canopy. And generally speaking they are
kicking butt and taking names in their markets. I
Sounds like you can't deploy in TVWS soon enough!
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
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