Todd, I don't see where you are taking into account the number of people on the flight into the cost per mileage per person or per pound, since I have not seen an empty seat on an airplane for years. Also, what energy usage at home, some of use manage to use almost none so the amount of energy usage on the road is way huge in comparison. I don't know anyone who drive Houston to Vancouver in 3 days, the truckers call it 5 and I can not do 14 hours a day in a vehicle so I would be looking at closer to 7 days of travel. The biggest factor I can see is the cost of lives of people on the highways that are too tired to be there, accidents do tend to happen to tired people.
For long trips, air travel is a reasonable alternative when all the costs are added up. There is a lot of support for the roads, the rail lines or any form of transportation and they all cost energy. Yes you can spin this any way you want, but in some cases it is the best method. Air freight is expensive to the pocket book and the environment. I never use it if I have a choice. Some companies don't give you that choice, when you order from them. I believe in telephones, conference calling, video cams on computers and many other methods of communicating that will eliminate the need for travel. But there are day when you just want to hug your kids! Bright Blessings, Kim At 11:25 AM 5/6/2004, you wrote: >Kim, > >Flight, just because it's quick, certainly isn't energy efficient. > >It takes a bit more fuel to propel a Boeing 727 (~152,000#s empty with >~58,000#s cargo capacity) and one pound of body fat through the air at >30,000 feet than it does to propel a 2,500 pound car (on the ground, of >course) and one pound of body fat. > >The 727- 200, burns ~1,678 gallons per hour when cruising at ~580 mph. > >If you started with a 3,000 mile trip, divide by 580 mph, multiply by 1,678 >gallons per hour and then divide by the 58,000#s of cargo and passenger >weight, you come up with a fuel consumption of ~19.154 fluid ounces of fuel >per pound for the 3,000 mile trip. > >If you duplicated that equation using a four seat VW Golf diesel, with a >maximum payload of 900#s and having a rated fuel economy of 48 mpg, you >come up with a fuel consumption of 8.889 fluid ounces of fuel per pound for >the 3,000 mile trip. > >That equates to passenger car travel consuming less than half the fuel as >does air travel, at least when comparing a VW Golf diesel to a Boeing >727-200 - hardly numbers that can be transferred across the board when you >consider that not every vehicle on the road is rated at 48 mpg, nor is every >airliner or commuter airplane rated at 1,678 gallons per hour of flight. > >There are boatloads of other variables that can be piled onto such a quick >calculation and massaged to give whatever spin someone would like. Both >industries have monumental support infrastructures that consume massive >amounts of fuel and it would probably take a year of doctoral work to come >anywhere close to a relatively ambiguous comparison.. After all, 4 people >would sleep three nights on the Golf side of the equation and 160 passengers >and crew would sleep 1 night on the 727 side. But then you would have to >subtract the energy that would have been consumed at the primary residences >of all passengers from that consumed when using the same services on the >road. And then........, well........, you get the picture. > >Anyway, the raw transportation fuel comparison for each of the two vehicles >above is largely sound. > >Mind you that truck and rail traffic can get fuel/payload ratios down even >further, giving all the more reason for energy conscious business persons >and consumers to never ship a package airfreight. > >UPS air, Airborne and Fed Ex air aren't exactly fuel >efficienct/environmental bargains. > >Todd Swearingen > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kim & Garth Travis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:26 AM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Tim Castleman's Post > > > > Greetings, > > > > Would you care to figure our time into that equation? Yes, I am serious > > about the environment and yes, I do travel by plane. If I am traveling > > from Houston, Texas to Vancouver, British Columbia it is the best method > > since you also have to figure in all our meals and the energy and cost >that > > they incur, as well as the travel. I would like more than 3 hours out of >a > > 2 week trip to actually get to know my future daughter-in-law, on this > > trip, which is about what I would get if I traveled by train. > > > > While I can understand your point with the daily shuttles between major > > cities, and yes there is some abuse, there is far more to the equation >than > > you have presented. There are things like driving fatigue accidents to > > consider for business trips. The cost in energy of running motels, where > > the sheets have to be washed everyday because there are different people >in > > the bed everyday. Meals in restaurants are really abusive of energy and > > not very healthy. And the biggy, time with family that the slower methods > > of travel eat up. > > > > I agree conservation is something to go after, but tele-confrencing not > > travel should be used more. If travel is really necessary, the planes do > > have saving to offer sometimes. > > > > Bright Blessings, > > Kim > > > > At 12:15 AM 5/6/2004, you wrote: > > >Hi Lyle, > > > > > >What I am saying is that it is socially irresponsible to promote > > >biofuels without at least an equal effort to promote a SIGNIFICANT > > >reduction in consumption on the order of 1/5th the current amount, > > >BY ALL OF US. > > > > > >For example, Jet Air Travel. I am amazed at the number of so-called > > >environmentalists that refuse to give up this particular bad habit. > > >Here we have an industry subsidized with over 18 times the amount > > >allowed for super efficient train travel. > > > > > >Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel: > > > > > >SUV: 4,591 > > >Air: 4,123 > > >Bus: 3,729 > > >Car: 3,672 > > >Train: 2,138 > > > > > >Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics > > >http://199.79.179.77/publications/nts/index.html > > > > > >Another example, folks insist on racing from red light to red light > > >as fast as possible, and when on highways and freeways routinely > > >speed 20 to 30 mph above posted speed limits. The cops have given up > > >trying to enforce speed limits (a whole other rant) so the race is > > >on. Now everyone knows the faster one goes the more fuel is > > >consumed, yet bring up the idea of restoring the 55 MPH speed limit, > > >and enforcing existing speed limits, and watch the so-called > > >environmentalists scurry for cover like roaches when the lights come > > >on. > > > > > >This one simple measure could reduce consumption, emmissions & > > >reliance on imported oil 20% to 50%! Visit the Drive 55 Conservation > > >website to read several reports and articles in support of this > > >claim: http://drive55.org/pn/index.php > > > > > > > > >So, all that said, and seeing as you "fundamentally agree" with > > >my "conservation message" - what commitments are you prepared to > > >make to reduce your personal consumption of energy? > > > > > >I refuse to fly in jet airplanes now. I plan better and stick to > > >surface transportation. > > > > > >When I drive my 78 300D, I obey speed limits, rarely exceeding 55 > > >MPH. By staying in the right lane I have found this very easy as > > >that is the maximum for trucks here in California. Guess what, > > >McDonalds BRAGS about sticking to 55 MPH with stickers on their > > >trucks! > > > > > >I have replaced every light bulb in my home with 13 watt > > >flourescents and installed dual pane windows among the ongoing > > >efforts. > > > > > >I ride my bike whenever possible for most trips to the store, bank, > > >and other errands. I even take it on the light rail when I go > > >downtown. > > > > > >When I shop I pay close attention to the source of the products I > > >buy, and always choose locally produced goods if possible. > > > > > >I share this message with everyone I meet, along with the > > >information I have about cellulosic ethanol, biodiesel, and other > > >types of biofuel as a PART of the equation. > > > > > >I will say this very plainly again now: It is socially irresponsible > > >to promote biofuels without AT LEAST an equal effort made to promote > > >conservation. The offense is compounded when someone claiming > > >concern for the environment refuses to acknowledge this in their own > > >life, and joins in the funding of petroleum warlords. > > > > > >Peace, > > > > > >Tim > > > > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Lyle Estill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > I fundamentally agree with your conservation message, and your > > >mantra > > > > of social responsibility and sustainability, > > > > but I think questioning feedstock capacities at this point is a > > >straw > > > > argument. > > > > > > > > Saying we can't grow enough to meet our fuel needs is a little > > >like > > > > saying we shouldn't make electricity from wind--after all, the > > >wind > > > > doesn't always blow. > > > > > > > > Lyle Estill > > > > V.P., Stuff > > > > Piedmont Biofuels > > > > www.biofuels.coop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > >Biofuels list archives: > > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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