Joe, That sounds as I expected, it is probably larger than hydro and around the same as nuclear.
Sorry that I involved house heating in this, instead of sticking only to electricity, but in Sweden it is the main heating fuel. Hakan At 19:24 27/04/2006, you wrote: >Only 25% of electricity generation in Ontario is derived from coal > >J > >Hakan Falk wrote: >> >>Joe, >> >>You will be surprised, I come from Sweden and its hydro is comparable >>to Canada. The country that produces most electricity from hydro in >>percent of energy production, is Brazil, which have around 38% of its >>electricity from hydro. I was told that when I was there. Nuclear >>give a large contribution and the rest is from burning coal (very >>common), wood, waste, oil and running engine power stations on oil. >>Oil is the major contributor in countries that do not have a lot of >>hydro. I think that for Canada and Sweden, hydro is around 10-15%, >>which is a lot. I saw figures once and I think that oil is more than >>60% of our heating needs. >> >>When it comes to heating, oil is by far the most common fuel and a >>regular villa burner will give you between 70 to 90% efficiency. An >>old and very poorly maintained burner, can go down to 50 - 60% efficiency. >> >>If you burn 0.4 lit oil to heat your home, you have to put in 1 liter >>to produce the same in electricity. That also mean that with equal >>pollution efficiency, the home burner pollutes 60% less. You have to >>put in super efficient filters in the power station to have the same >>pollution. The most common power stations burn coal and those are >>very large and difficult polluters. The coal and oil power stations >>are on top of this often located close to urban areas and this does >>not improve the situation. >> >>Hakan >> >>At 17:22 27/04/2006, you wrote: >> >>> >>>Yes you are correct Hakan and I have to remember that in other >>>places electricity is generated in much poorer ways than it is here >>>in Canada. Most of our electricity comes from hydroelectric and >>>nuclear with a small fraction from other types of >>>generation. However even with your 70 -85% numbers if everyone >>>began burning vegetable oil or glycerine in crude burners to get >>>energy directly the impact on the atmosphere would be quite >>>significant especially in areas like where I live where electricity >>>is generated by relatively clean techniques. (I am not saying that I >>>like nuclear). Local solar PV and storage systems to me seems to be >>>the best option and I would still use an electric heater. I have >>>obtained a surplus watt hour meter which I plan to install on the >>>main power feed to my reactor so I can measure the total input >>>energy to my process. I want to determine the viability of running >>>it from a PV system. >>> >>>Joe >>> >>>Hakan Falk wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Joe, >>>> >>>>Making electricity with 35% efficiency and the heat with 90+% >>>>efficiency, make a total of 32% efficiency, compared with 70 to 85% >>>>efficiency by heating directly with oil. This make the oil 2 - 2.5 >>>>times more efficient. Pollution has a direct relation to the >>>>efficiency. When they get the very efficient filter techniques at the >>>>power generation plants, the total pollution would maybe be equal, >>>>but we are not there yet. >>>> >>>>Hakan >>>> >>>>At 15:55 27/04/2006, you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Yes but the electrical energy is converted to heat with practically >>>>>100% eff regardless of it's source of generation which is what I >>>>>meant. You are right of course, electrical generation is not >>>>>without it's environmental impact, even hydro. But what of your >>>>>emissions from burning?? >>>>> >>>>>J >>>>> >>>>>Hakan Falk wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Joe, >>>>>> >>>>>>Electricity more efficient for heating? A lot of the electricity >>>>>>production is using oil, with around 35% efficiency to make the >>>>>>electricity. Heating with oil have 70 to 85% efficiency in burners. I >>>>>>would not give anything for this manual, the author lacks knowledge >>>>>>and understanding. A pity that it is a women who wrote it, because >>>>>>now I am going to be accused of being a male chauvinist. It does >>>>>>however not effect the fact that it is much more efficient to heat >>>>>>with oil, than with electricity. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hakan >>>>>> >>>>>>At 15:16 27/04/2006, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Getting it really cold means removing heat. Whether you remove heat >>>>>>>or add heat it takes time and energy. Adding heat would be a more >>>>>>>efficient process unless you live in the arctic and can let good old >>>>>>>mother nature do the work for you. BTW someone recently passed me a >>>>>>>manual written by a woman who shall remain nameless that is for sale >>>>>>>about making biodiesel. It says that heating oil for dewatering is >>>>>>>a very inefficient process. An electrical resistance heater is as >>>>>>>close to 100 percent efficient as anything I can imagine. Just be >>>>>>>careful about heat density. Too much power confined to too small an >>>>>>>area will degrade the oil at the heater surface. Better to use >>>>>>>several low density heaters to speed things up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Jason & Katie wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>what about applejack style dewatering? get it REALLY cold so the oil >>>>>>>>solidifies, or the water freezes, whichever comes first and >>>>>>>>screen it out? >>>>>>>>thats how the old folks used to make apple whiskey for hard >>>>>>>>cider when my >>>>>>>>grandma was a kid. >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Ryan Pope" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>To: <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org><biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:19 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm trying to think of alternate ways to reduce/eliminate >>>>>>>>> water in WVO >>>>>>>>>that are both easy (i.e. passive) and don't involve the energy use of >>>>>>>>>heating a bulk volume of oil to near water BP. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Coalescing media comes to mind, has anybody every looked into this >>>>>>>>>further or heard of its use in biodiesel production? All I >>>>>>>>>see on JtF is >>>>>>>>>variations on heating and settling. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you aren't familiar with coalescer media, it works because as the >>>>>>>>>oil-water mix is passed though the media, the small suspended drops of >>>>>>>>>water >>>>>>>>>tend to group together into larger and larger drops of free water that >>>>>>>>>will >>>>>>>>>then separate by gravity on the downstream side of the media. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> An example video can be seen at >>>>>>>>><http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm>http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not sure on cost of the bulk media yet. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ryan Pope >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for >>>>>>>>>advice on how to >>>>>>>>>get there! >>>>>>>>><http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement>http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>>>>>><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>>>><http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>>>>>><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>>>>>>messages): >>>>>>>>><http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release >>>>>>>>>Date: 4/25/2006 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>>>>><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>>><http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>>>>><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives >>>>>>>>(50,000 messages): >>>>>>>><http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>>>><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>>><http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>>>><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>>>>messages): >>>>>>><http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>>><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>>><http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>>>> >>>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>>><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>>> >>>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives >>>>>>(50,000 messages): >>>>>><http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>><http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>>> >>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>> >>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>>messages): >>>>><http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>><http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>> >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives >>>>(50,000 messages): >>>><http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>messages): >>><http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 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