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Electricity is more useful to me. J Zeke Yewdall wrote: I wouldn't be too sure about that. 500 gallon water tank weighs about 4,000lbs, and can store 200,000Btu's of heat (changing temperature from 185F to 135F. This is about 58kWh of thermal energy.4,000lbs of lead acid batteries will also store about 56kWh with an 80% DOD. But they will cost about $8,000. Plus the fact that PV modules are about $5/watt, whereas new solar thermal collectors are under $1/watt..... Partly because PV is max about 18% efficient, whereas even a half assed solar thermal collector can hit 50 or 60% efficient. For specific electrical heating needs like soldering irons or such, electrical is the only way to go, but for bulk low temp heating, solar thermal seems better. Just my two cents (as a PV guy...) On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Maybe but I think I can keep the energy stored for longer and use it more conveniently and for more purposes by storing it in batteries than in a hot water tank. Joe Zeke Yewdall wrote: If you are running a reactor from solar, why not use solar thermal? That will be much less costly than PV running resistance heating, and can easily achieve the temperatures required. On 4/27/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes you are correct Hakan and I have to remember that in other places electricity is generated in much poorer ways than it is here in Canada. Most of our electricity comes from hydroelectric and nuclear with a small fraction from other types of generation. However even with your 70 -85% numbers if everyone began burning vegetable oil or glycerine in crude burners to get energy directly the impact on the atmosphere would be quite significant especially in areas like where I live where electricity is generated by relatively clean techniques. (I am not saying that I like nuclear). Local solar PV and storage systems to me seems to be the best option and I would still use an electric heater. I have obtained a surplus watt hour meter which I plan to install on the main power feed to my reactor so I can measure the total input energy to my process. I want to determine the viability of running it from a PV system. Joe Hakan Falk wrote: Joe, Making electricity with 35% efficiency and the heat with 90+% efficiency, make a total of 32% efficiency, compared with 70 to 85% efficiency by heating directly with oil. This make the oil 2 - 2.5 times more efficient. Pollution has a direct relation to the efficiency. When they get the very efficient filter techniques at the power generation plants, the total pollution would maybe be equal, but we are not there yet. Hakan At 15:55 27/04/2006, you wrote: Yes but the electrical energy is converted to heat with practically 100% eff regardless of it's source of generation which is what I meant. You are right of course, electrical generation is not without it's environmental impact, even hydro. But what of your emissions from burning?? J Hakan Falk wrote: Joe, Electricity more efficient for heating? A lot of the electricity production is using oil, with around 35% efficiency to make the electricity. Heating with oil have 70 to 85% efficiency in burners. I would not give anything for this manual, the author lacks knowledge and understanding. A pity that it is a women who wrote it, because now I am going to be accused of being a male chauvinist. It does however not effect the fact that it is much more efficient to heat with oil, than with electricity. Hakan At 15:16 27/04/2006, you wrote: Getting it really cold means removing heat. Whether you remove heat or add heat it takes time and energy. Adding heat would be a more efficient process unless you live in the arctic and can let good old mother nature do the work for you. BTW someone recently passed me a manual written by a woman who shall remain nameless that is for sale about making biodiesel. It says that heating oil for dewatering is a very inefficient process. An electrical resistance heater is as close to 100 percent efficient as anything I can imagine. Just be careful about heat density. Too much power confined to too small an area will degrade the oil at the heater surface. Better to use several low density heaters to speed things up. Joe Jason & Katie wrote: what about applejack style dewatering? get it REALLY cold so the oil solidifies, or the water freezes, whichever comes first and screen it out? thats how the old folks used to make apple whiskey for hard cider when my grandma was a kid. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Pope" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org><biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] WVO-Water Separation: coalescer media I'm trying to think of alternate ways to reduce/eliminate water in WVO that are both easy (i.e. passive) and don't involve the energy use of heating a bulk volume of oil to near water BP. Coalescing media comes to mind, has anybody every looked into this further or heard of its use in biodiesel production? All I see on JtF is variations on heating and settling. If you aren't familiar with coalescer media, it works because as the oil-water mix is passed though the media, the small suspended drops of water tend to group together into larger and larger drops of free water that will then separate by gravity on the downstream side of the media. An example video can be seen at <http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm>http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/tech_video.htm Not sure on cost of the bulk media yet. Thanks, Ryan Pope _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? 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