On 10/14/09, Kevin Donnelly <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 14 October 2009 08:24, you wrote:
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> Thanks for taking the time to respond. From this & what you wrote Ralf
>> below, I have a better feel for what you're getting at. I don't fully
>> agree, but I wasn't half clear to begin with. My apologies there.
>>
>> (& Hi Ralf)
>>
>> I was intentionally not being critical of Ralf in my 1st post because
>> his faults had already been heartily reviewed by others. He seems
>> perfectly aware of them himself by now - awareness doesn't always
>> bring about instant change. Mainly, I have to say, I just felt like
>> sticking up for him in a small way without going on for too long.
>>
>> I know Ralf's not a Linux wiz. I'm not even sure my warmth for Ralf
>> doesn't come from just the opposite - empathy for his struggles. I
>> even realize many of Ralf's methods are probably, for most people &
>> for the most part, inefficient. But no more so, & more likely less so,
>> than my own. I suppose I've liked his meanderings as much as I have
>> because of his seemingly endless energy to voice his troubles here -
>> I'm more incline to say nothing. It's cost me in time, money &
>> frustration. (& it's my fault.) But also I've seen his willingness to
>> help others when he can, I've learned a few things from his posts, & I
>> guess more than anything, I've enjoyed reading some of his "spiels."
>
> I agree, but enthusiasm and energy of themselves do not give anyone the
> right
> to say some of the things Ralf has said, especially when they impact on
> other
> people.
>
Hi Kevin, I wasn't coming back to this thread, but now that I've
caught on that I only sent you the email off-list, I'll see if I can
dig a deeper hole. Nobody could possibly tell from what I said, but
what I've enjoyed are Ralf's efforts at sorting out hardware/software
issues - whether resolved or not - not the mutually destructive
attacks & counter-attacks going on.
>> I think it's misguided to assign so much power to one person. I don't
>> see that Ralf will brake 64studio (other than, possibly, his copy,) or
>> ruin this list. Not possessing the technical skill sets to ask what
>> needs to be asked can stop people more than anything Ralf has said.
>> I've had that problem more than once. It's unfair to make Ralf the
>> group's scapegoat because he's so visible & sometimes invites it. (uh,
>> exactly this moment I read your latest, Ralf, & please, chill.)
>
> But my Synfig post did not seek to make him a "scapegoat" - a scapegoat for
> what? I just asked him to try to conform more with the standard norms for
> mailing-lists, ie don't post so frequently (ie try to gather your thoughts
> into one post before you send it off), and try to stay on-topic (ie try to
> focus on issues with the distro as released, rather than second-remove
> issues
> with a distro to which custom changes have been made). This was sparked by
> an actual untruth in his post, and in subsequent posts he has told further
> untruths which he doesn't even seem to feel the need to own up to. And his
> most recent post is, as you say, unhelpful.
>
Actually, I'm not sure what your Synfig post was about. My "scapegoat"
comment was in reply to your reply to me, this:
"Sure, you can look at Ralf's stuff and think, "Good old Ralf,
there he is, chuntering along as usual - nice to think there are people like
that around, lifting up stones." But my view is that this same stuff is
antithetical to turning lurkers into users, and that is not good for the
distro."
As I more or less said before, I don't see one person's posts causing
the sort of damage your implying. Well, unless you want it to & work
toward it. Don't discount your place here. Also, my comment was a bit
of a reply to the original post that got this thread going.
>> Anyway, many here treat Ralf decent. I guess we're defined as much by
>> what we exclude as what we take in.
>
> Indeed. But that cuts both ways. Ralf is demanding space for his own
> concerns (even when these include throwaway remarks that are actually quite
> insulting) without apparently being prepared to entertain the concerns of
> others about the style and content of his posts.
>
Sorry, I wasn't aware the message had only gone to you. That's why I'd
written, "Hi Ralf." I believe that the last thought I wrote was meant
for myself as well.
I'm not trying to be totally lopsided here - everyone who posts has
some affect. To me, these blind alley threads are the worse. The same
day I 1st posted here, I wrote a personal one to a friend close to me.
Sending that one was more of a regret than the one that arrived here.
Maybe the wolves were out. Didn't somebody somewhere say that it's
irrational to expect people to be rational all the time. I'm leaving
it there...
best,
-s
>> p.s. Don't have space for it now but may actually get 64studio
>> installed someday.
>
> Please try to do this - I think you will be impressed. And *please* post
> any
> issues you have. If you have an old PC lying about, you could at least use
> that to find your way around the apps in the distro, even if you don't
> actually make any finished music with it.
>
> --
> Pob hwyl / Best wishes
>
> Kevin Donnelly
>
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