Hi Kali, > You also decide that the departure date will be tomorrow and not > another day. However, where would your plans go if tomorrow before > departure i.e. an earthquake happens in Florida, or terrorists put a > bomb.
And then possibly, Bob may think that the earthquake was because he decided to go there. I often do that. I never watch India Vs something cricket match, because I know that, if I watch it, India is bound to lose. Which it does, any way, but then the responsibility is not mine ! On Aug 3, 12:38 pm, Mahakali <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Bob > > > I can not get past the concept that my "life's course" if you will, is > > predetermined. > > Yes, it is predetermined in the sense that you are (apparently) > making > choices. The choices that are, apparently, available to you.But you > do > not have any control over what will happen in the next second or > moment. You appear to be in charge of your life, but, "really" you > are > not. > > > If that is the case, every choice I think I am making would have to be > > predetermined. > > No. The choice "you" (Bob) make is your, apparent, choice. > I.e. Today, you may decide that a nice trip to seaside would be > nice. > Between, the beaches of Florida and California, you decide in favour > of Florida. > You also decide that the departure date will be tomorrow and not > another day. However, where would your plans go if tomorrow before > departure i.e. an earthquake happens in Florida, or terrorists put a > bomb > in a USA airport or a tornado hits the coast? Or, what if > your wife tells you that she does not want to go and you, in order > not > to upset her, decide against leaving for Florida? There can be a > myriad of > causes and events influencing and changing your (apparent) decision > can be happening (environmentally or genetically, internal or > external). So, how "real" was your decision? Are you really in > control > of your life? > > Even the "thought" (as in the result of brain, neurons activity) is > predetermined. I.e. it has been pre-thought and you only appear to be > having a thought. > > > Meaning, I'm not making a choice, I'm following suit. > > You are making the choice. A choice between the ones that are > apparently available to you. You also appear to be following suit. > And, it has nothing to do with your "will" or God's "will", things > are > the way they are... > > ... > > > Takes a lot of responsibility off of one's shoulders. > > It will take some pressure off the shoulders of your self but it will > not take off the responsibility you have in respect of society as a > whole. You will still have to respond to society for the good or the > bad of your actions. > > I hope this helps.. > > Kali > > On Aug 2, 9:00 pm, Bob1357 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I need somebody to explain this to me like I am an idiot that I am. > > Marcus I completely understand what you saying your last post. > > I can not get past the concept that my "life's course" if you will, is > > predetermined. > > If that is the case, every choice I think I am making would have to be > > predetermined. > > Meaning, I'm not making a choice, I'm following suit. > > Meaning everything that is happening, has happened or will happen is > > exactly the way it is, was and will suppose to be. > > Takes a lot of responsibility off of one's shoulders. > > Almost too much. > > Just having a hard time buying into that .......... so I don't. > > At least not at this point in my life. > > > On Aug 2, 6:07 am, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > We come to know the true self by knowing no other. > > > > On Aug 2, 5:49 am, Marcus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > . > > > > > “Can the flying fragment deviate from its path of trajectory?” > > > > > No …………………….. the flying fragment displays a predetermined path, or > > > > trajectory. > > > > > The question is (given this illusion) is are we flying fragments of > > > > the whole. > > > > In my opinion I would say yes. Does that imply we follow > > > > predetermined paths I would again say yes. Free will is > > > > indicative to the illusion. Our blends of strengths and weakness > > > > predetermines our reactions to circumstance. These circumstance > > > > enable our behaviour patterns. > > > > I know it’s a real mind bender but :---- we journey predestine > > > > paths with defaults settings to suit. If you said “well I am going > > > > to live in a cave for the rest of my life” to avoid your predetermined > > > > path then even this is part of the predetermination. > > > > So look …….. if free will is also part of the illusion, then what > > > > ever you choose is destiny at play. The freedom from karma is only > > > > to see it for what it is. > > > > To accept and flow with nature. > > > > > This is why happiness and unhappiness ultimately are the same. This > > > > is why we can say “I am “ everything and nothing at the same > > > > time. > > > > This is how we come to know the true self. > > > > > Only then does inner peace fill your day ……………………….. a fragment of > > > > the divine. > > > > > . > > > > > On Aug 2, 11:26 am, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you,Marcus. > > > > > > "We observe this shifting...." > > > > > > The observation of this shifting is the shifting of this observer. > > > > > > "We have to accept the responsibility..." > > > > > > Can the observer accept what is not observed? > > > > > > Can the flying fragment deviate from its path of trajectory? > > > > > > On Aug 2, 3:33 am, Marcus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > Thanks Rodger, > > > > > > > “that which has said 'our illusions'...evolves.” > > > > > > > Yes ….. defiantly. Everything manifest in this momentary > > > > > > illusion, > > > > > > shifts from a previous momentary illusion. We observe this > > > > > > shifting, > > > > > > apply purpose and label it as evolution. And rightly so. The > > > > > > illusion of Marcus had evolved. The illusion of Rodger has > > > > > > evolved. The time spans and rate of change are different. The > > > > > > sun > > > > > > flowers growing in my garden have blossomed and are now begining to > > > > > > die. This is physical law of growth and decay which binds the earth > > > > > > plains of man. This in mind. We must also accept that as humans > > > > > > we > > > > > > are not just physical beings. Inside each one of us (even > > > > > > Roomsearching) is a connection to a deeper, richer and infinite > > > > > > dimension. Very different to the physical earth plan, the deeper > > > > > > element of our illusions gives rise to things intangible, like love, > > > > > > beauty, anger, past, future, Poetry, philosophy, God and fraternity. > > > > > > These things are a daily experience for us all. Intangible, yet > > > > > > just > > > > > > as real to the individual as awareness itself. > > > > > > > We all dream, think, hope. Given that we ourselves create these > > > > > > experiences and then live them, we have to accept the responsibility > > > > > > of being. These illusions are where we live. The illusion of > > > > > > evolution is just as actual as the illusion of yesterday. > > > > > > > In opinion …………… Spiritual knowledge is uncovered when one simpley > > > > > > sees the truth of this apparent contradiction. We are everything > > > > > > that can exist within an illusion. We are it’s creator. Therefore > > > > > > solely responsible for our expriance of each moment. > > > > > > > The deeper side of our awareness wants to enjoy being human. We are > > > > > > driven by the urge to enjoy this moment. Yet many prefer to torture > > > > > > themselves and others by denying peace, beauty and love for > > > > > > themselves > > > > > > and others. They create their Hell then live in it, to use an old > > > > > > metaphor. > > > > > > > It’s all apparent parts of the whole, the whole knows what it’s > > > > > > doing > > > > > > even if we don’t. > > > > > > > Faith is a great strength ……………. > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 5:52 pm, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Marcus, > > > > > > > whether it is consciousness,spirit,or bozo...that which has said > > > > > > > 'our > > > > > > > illusions'...evolves.And,even though evolving,is never not > > > > > > > that.(The > > > > > > > more things change the more they stay the same.)Or would you > > > > > > > disagree > > > > > > > with that? > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 9:51 am, Marcus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > “what is society but evolving spirit...which is alone, > > > > > > > > naturally?” > > > > > > > > > But “spirit” as a universal non-dual unlimited consciousness > > > > > > > > has no > > > > > > > > evolution. It is. It’s our illusions of consciousness which > > > > > > > > shift, > > > > > > > > change, perhaps evolve. > > > > > > > > > I see us as a connection between the illusion of self and thee > > > > > > > > universal whole which is everything in unity. (Advaita) We > > > > > > > > can only > > > > > > > > surmise from these view-points of the self, and yet. In brief > > > > > > > > moments we can also see/feel the expanse of the whole. > > > > > > > > Metaphorically, We are the union of a angel and a beast. A > > > > > > > > supposed > > > > > > > > blend of two opposing realms of awareness. Each allegedly to > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > the other some sort of lesson. These are old metaphors but > > > > > > > > none the > > > > > > > > less, very useful in trying to get your head around the human > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > concept. > > > > > > > > > Almost as if when the beast side of our being is the most > > > > > > > > robust and > > > > > > > > the spiritual side steps back and lets the beast take charge. > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > eventually the beast becomes broken and the spirit steps > > > > > > > > forward to > > > > > > > > lift and inspire the being and take charge of the beast. > > > > > > > > > The great and noble surrender of the ego …………………… or > > > > > > > > crucifixion of > > > > > > > > the old self, to make way for the new self. > > > > > > > > > As you see. These are not new ideas. > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 3:03 pm, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marcus.I see what you're saying. > > > > > > > > > Should 'spiritual'...or spirit...be thought of as > > > > > > > > > awareness,consciousness,brahman,the absolute,thought,or what > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > you...even bozo...all knowledge is spiritual.One could > > > > > > > > > say,spirit > > > > > > > > > can't be defined,does the defining...spirit > > ... > > read more »
