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Great stuff Sandeep …….. your on a roll, Rock & roll. “ But these are all "a sense of" ....there are no , separated, discreted loci, on which these could be perched. In and as self-realization, there is neither a self-to-realize, nor a Self-to-be realized, nor any realizing.” Yes …….. I do understand how we have to accept there is no traditional perch or object to be perched on a non-extant perch, that can satisfy a human desire to measure and label what is seen as the self. But I think it’s always important to remind ourselves of the challenge. The challenge is individual Self realisation. As you so rightly point out. Self realisation is generally confirmed when one realises that there is no self to realise and that in-fact the universe is whole and momentary in it’s actualisation of the now. Self then dissipates as this moment’s universal circumstance are enjoyed for what they are, without question. Seeing this provides equal respect for everything in the now. The self, albeit the route cause of illusion is still what is. With respect. The illusion of self gives rise to the illusion of Self realisation. But this only redefines Self as the illusion. Thus proving that our individual illusions are our individual realities. Or at least the most real as we can possibly experience while trapped in these human vessel conditions. This car salesman will say what ever he believes necessary to sell you a car. This must be respected as the nature of the circumstance for the salesman. You/me/us must respect the nature of our actual circumstance as we contemplate that thing that contemplates. Self realises that contemplation does contemplate ………… beyond itself. Contemplation is …………. Happening in this now. . On Apr 20, 10:19 am, Mark Ty-Wharton <[email protected]> wrote: > Why are we using the term awareness at all? > > It's such an ambiguous term with so many meanings > > It is synonymous with mindfulness and we are not just the body/mind > > At the level of self we arise out of the body mind and are in essence nothing > definable > > The distinguishable me is just that and no more a distinction! > > Both real as distinguishable and distinct from another and not real > > The distinction Mark cannot be separated from the object Mark > > One > > Anti-Duality? > > Dark-Duality? > > We know something is out here! > > Sent from an iPhone > > On 20 Apr 2011, at 08:43, Sandeep-Kuber Technologies > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 4/20/2011 10:43 AM, godszen wrote: > > >> Sandeep-Kuber Technologies wrote: > >>> Which is why, you-as-you-truly-are can never perceive yourself. > > >>> Awareness-not-aware-of-itself-as awareness > >> with the help of the human mind > >> awareness can become aware of itself > > >> *self-realization* > > > When a tool is used, all that gets created/achieved/realized/reached is a > > projection of the tool. > > > That's all. > > > It may be the most profoundest experience but still a projection of the > > means that got used in the process. > > > The other usual misunderstanding not just by you GZ but by most is about > > term awareness. > > > Awareness is always connoted as awareness of <whatever>. > > > And that is why it is accepted to be a synonymous with witnessing. > > > Typically it is held that there is no witnesser unless there is > > something to be witnessed. > > > But the as-if-ness of this, as witnessing......may have a sense of a > > witnesser and the witnessed, but these are all > > "a sense of" ....there are no , separated, discreted loci, on which these > > could be perched. > > > Which is why the pointing of that primordialness... > > > ....as awareness not aware of anything, not itself, nor it's > > absence, nor even of the much bandied about...nothingness. > > > Don't go by the spiel that is being fed to you GZ, in the satsangh circuit > > that you frequent. > > > In and as self-realization, there is neither a self-to-realize, nor a > > Self-to-be realized, nor any realizing. > > > These are the same inducements that a salesman of second-hand cars > > use, to sell you a lemon. > > > If lemonade is all that you are looking for, sure go for the lemons.- Hide > > quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
