Is that the daughter in law who lives in the UK? If so, wondering if location sways her views at all.
> On Jul 20, 2020, at 12:18 PM, <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote: > > I love arguing with my kids. I will pick any position or even swap sides mid > argument. Their spouses have finally figured out that I just love the > debate. But the main thing I get out of it is exposure the new ideas. They > get a dose of reality. One daughter in law refused to believe that one could > exist on $1000/month. They one of my sons informed her that he lived on less > than that for several years. Same daughter in law thought I should be paying > all my employees a minimum wage of $15. I told her that most of my employees > do make that or more, but entry level jobs would not exist if they had to do > so. Then she got on me for paying so low the employees could not afford > healthcare. I informed her that we do provide health care. She stopped > talking for a few minutes that afternoon... > > From: Brian Webster <> > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 12:10 PM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political > > I didn’t assume that you were Adam. I pose questions or viewpoints for the > wider audience. Too often I am seeing polarizing views all over from people > who have never stopped to quietly consider the other side or multiple sides > to an issue. Put the shoe on the other foot has been lost as a concept. The > instant gratification society has lost their ability to have a little pause > and consider mentality (part of getting old I guess). Whenever I have a > chance to politely discuss situations with others and pose some other > possibilities in a situation, most people will be courteous and say I guess I > had never considered that point, or I was not aware of that fact. When I also > listen to their perspective on the same topic it gives me other points to > think about that I may not have known or thought about. I am not one to have > any illusions that I can change a person’s beliefs or core values, but I do > try and at least get a person to pause and try to consider a different > viewpoint or facts. I have no aspirations or delusions that I can get people > to think the way I do or believe that I am right on any particular topic. My > upbringing and life experiences form a different outlook than any other > person and I believe every other person I meet has experienced life in their > own way that forms their own outlook. > > Wow I am sounding like some old coger rocking on the porch…….. > > Thank you, > Brian Webster > > From: AF [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] On > Behalf Of Adam Moffett > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 1:49 PM > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political > > I would definitely not approve of a CHAZ/CHOP type thing in my neighborhood. > I'm not sure what I would do about it. I suppose I'd probably show up to > their meetings and say bad things to them. Then they'd call me a fascist or > something. We'd have to see where it went from there. > > The executive order I referred to was signed by the president on June 26th. > It was titled “Protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues and > Combating Recent Criminal Activity" > > I don't know what those federal agencies did in the absence of that specific > order. Maybe they waited for an order? > > Please don't think I'm outraged. Quite the opposite. I don't think anything > could possibly outrage me anymore because I'm sick and tired of outrage. > > > > > > > > On 7/20/2020 1:32 PM, Brian Webster wrote: >> Is that all they are doing? I do not know and do not expect anyone who is >> not directly involved in the activities to know at this stage, but it is >> very plausible that they are doing what is within their authority. >> Speculation by the media is not in itself reason either. Fact is people >> should do their due diligence and try to find out their own facts. Leaving >> that job up to a journalist and hanging your hat, opinion, and perception on >> a journalist these days probably not the wisest plan of action. But if a >> person wants to have an echo chamber opinion, they should go ahead and pick >> the media outlet that supports their point of view and stick with them. All >> media outlets these days have a major bias like we have never seen before. >> One side or the other, doesn't matter. Journalistic integrity is not what it >> used to be yet it would seem most of society is quick to question everything >> and everyone except the media. >> >> I know that if I lived in this area I would expect my constitutional rights >> to be protected as a citizen with freedom of movement in those neighborhoods >> and have access to my place of business or residence. A government letting a >> whole region of a city be taken over like what happened in Seattle is >> absurd. That was an invasion and take over plain and simple. Protests are >> one thing, occupying a place and keeping cops out and not having 100% >> agreement by all those in the occupied area is nothing short than an act of >> war and at minimum domestic terrorism. Plain and simple. If you do not >> believe that, seriously ask yourself if you would be ok if that happened to >> you on your own property or property you own for your place of business. >> That is a hostage/kidnap situation. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of your >> own happiness has been taken away. Blocking you from police, fire or EMS >> protection is shameful and illegal. Any politician that does not look at >> things that way is a puppet and hypocrite, especially when they have their >> own guards and security protecting them. At least in Portland the Feds >> starting not to allow that to happen in the Federal park or give them any >> more base of operations to try and accomplish that in that city. The word >> "occupy" is always thrown around by pacifists in a different context about >> our worldwide military presence than how they support it for these types of >> protests, it's not any different in definition on our own soil even if you >> do agree with the political position or cause. No other person should be >> able to take control like that and deny you the rights you are provided in >> this country. >> >> I guess my point is, don't let just one type of information intake form your >> outrage. Speak to others that may have different input and knowledge (but >> please do it in a civil way and with the intent to listen not just answer >> back). This Portland situation likely started from just clearing the park >> and then massive outrage flames were fanned based on people not realizing >> that they were on federal land in the first place and those officers were >> there to protect the property and enforce those laws. >> >> Executive orders......not a fan of them. They can easily be misused and >> usually a plan of last resort when there is political deadlock. An executive >> order that says protect federal property? I would expect that every federal >> officer knows that is their job. Heck every military person knows that is >> their job. The first general order of a sentry is "to take charge of this >> post and all government property in view". Was it an actual executive order >> issued or was it more of a memo with the president reminding people that is >> what needs to be done. Rioting and tearing down statues and defacing federal >> (and by default taxpayer) property seems very divisive at this point. >> Letting things devolve to more than that when the group has "Occupy" in >> their name and cause should be treated as such and not considered just a >> protest. Their intent is stated in the name. >> >> Thank you, >> Brian Webster >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AF [ <>mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett >> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 12:55 PM >> To: <>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political >> >> It doesn't all stem from clearing a park. That might not be what you're >> trying to say, but it could be read that way. >> >> The reason people are pointing a finger at the current administration is >> there was an executive order signed a few weeks ago ordering federal >> agencies to protect federal property, and that seems to be a direct >> response to the ongoing protests. They can bring in this variety of >> agencies because the Homeland Security Act of 2002 allows them to >> deputize other federal agents to assist: >> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/politics/federal-agents-portland-arrests.html >> >> <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/politics/federal-agents-portland-arrests.html> >> >> So the justification is protecting federal property, but is that all >> they're doing? No political motivations of any kind here? And while I'm >> sure that they have the legal authority for all of this, isn't it ok to >> ask whether they should? >> >> >> >> On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Brian Webster wrote: >>> In Portland part of the protest and occupy movement protesters were trying >>> to camp out in a FEDERAL PARK downtown. This attempt to occupy federal >>> property has not happened in other cities that I am aware of and hence the >>> different agencies involved. That Park director requested more federal law >>> enforcement help in getting the people off the park grounds and not allow >>> them to camp there. This was not a case of the black helicopters coming and >>> federal officers taking over local law enforcement authority from the >>> locals. If was Federal Law Enforcement protecting federal property. In ALL >>> law enforcement agencies it is not unusual for plain clothes officers, >>> detectives etc. to have unmarked vehicles and use them when making arrests. >>> This is hardly unusual police activity if you look at the whole picture. >>> Local law enforcement does this type of thing all of the time. If these >>> federal officers had identified people who committed a crime on federal >>> property and then fled, they are within their law enforcement powers to >>> directly pursue and apprehend them even if the apprehension is not on >>> federal property. Local and state officers have the same powers. It's not >>> typically used but it's not unheard of for say a police officer to pursue >>> someone who they believe has committed a felony and cross a state line. >>> That officer is fully empowered to make that arrest in the other state. It >>> has happened many times and the laws have been upheld to allow for this. >>> There are also still the power to effect a citizen's arrest as well. Nobody >>> likes to do it because it gets messy legally after the fact but that is >>> still allowed in this country. >>> >>> Before people get outraged at what the press is telling them is happening, >>> they should take a step back and gather their own facts and knowledge and >>> not be so quick to accept some "experts" statements. You all know how bad a >>> journalist can butcher up a technical article on stuff we do and work with, >>> what makes us think they are any smarter in the field of law or medicine? >>> >>> https://kval.com/news/local/police-remove-occupy-portland-campers-from-park?fbclid=IwAR0dSQqKXj_ikwqmSfvMvvPtOVoFVhGjwrH126Lhiomx3iZXlxTUGtT2S7E >>> >>> <https://kval.com/news/local/police-remove-occupy-portland-campers-from-park?fbclid=IwAR0dSQqKXj_ikwqmSfvMvvPtOVoFVhGjwrH126Lhiomx3iZXlxTUGtT2S7E> >>> >>> "This morning, at request and at the lead of the US Federal Protective >>> Service, the Portland Police helped remove campers at Shrunk Plaza, which >>> is federal property across the street from Chapman Square," Adams wrote. >>> "The campers who were arrested - an estimated 8 to 10 people - at Shrunk >>> Plaza were detained by federal police and cited under US federal law. >>> Initial reports indicate arrests were completed in a peaceful manner." >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Brian Webster >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AF [ <>mailto:[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof >>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:41 AM >>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political >>> >>> I don't think I'd like it if Obama had dispatched federal troops to >>> "Republican-led cities" claiming they are stupidly and conservatively run. >>> >>> It also doesn't make me comfortable having Ken Cuccinelli driving this. >>> Not a guy who should have the power to send troops to your city for >>> political reasons, or any reason. Andy Taylor would make him keep his one >>> bullet in his shirt pocket. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AF <>mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> On Behalf Of Larry Smith >>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 10:20 AM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>mailto:[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political >>> >>> The US Border Patrol is a part of the Immigration and Naturalization >>> Service. >>> >>> -- >>> Larry Smith >>> <>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> On Mon July 20 2020 10:14, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>>> I thought I read they admitted to being Customs & Border Patrol, at >>>> least in Portland. But yes other reports say that a force was >>>> assembled from various federal agencies so maybe also US Marshals. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They have been using border patrol in questionable ways for awhile, >>>> like setting up roadblocks on highways hundreds of miles from any border. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: AF <>mailto:[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Prince >>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:56 AM >>>> To: <>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The National Guard is a state resource. I think he can request it, but >>>> I'm not sure he can command it. >>>> >>>> What I read, they were US Marshals, and other unidentified federal >>>> resources. >>>> >>>> bp >>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/20/2020 7:41 AM, <>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> <>mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yeah, you gotta wonder what their orders were. >>>> >>>> Doesn’t a president normally activate the National Guard when extra >>>> help is needed? >>>> >>>> These guys were – what? Homeland Security? ICE? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Jaime Solorza >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM >>>> >>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM < <>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> <>mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam. >>>> I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown >>>> and busting heads of those that did not clear out. Actually one of my >>>> first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy? I don’t get it. >>>> >>>> Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you >>>> is pretty childish. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> <>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <>mailto:[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> <>[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>
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