Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

Mon, 14 Feb 2022 12:13:22 -0800

Also consider that the single largest cost for an EV is the batter/y(ies). The cost of Lithium batteries (especially LFP) have dropped by over 50% in the last few years.
Tesla (at least) is looking for motors to go a million miles. You might be able to get that kind of longevity out of a diesel motor, but it will require vastly more maintenance. 


We are still in the rapid evolution of this type of transportation. By 
2025, I expect it to be a whole new world.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 2/14/2022 11:46 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:

If you are doing a 300 mile trip, your stop at a supercharger for a 
Model Y would be about 10 minutes to add another 150 miles, so that's 
not bad when you would be stopping at a gas station for 10 minutes as 
well.  ( I haven't ever gotten out and put even 10 gallons in in less 
that 7 minutes with using the card and all that, you don't do any of 
that at a supercharger )   As far as towing is going, I think you will 
see more and more of the Electric Airstream campers coming down the 
road that have electric assist, to remove the range losses.   There 
are used EV's on the market and the only reason the prices are high is 
because the demand is there, the prices will drop as more used ones 
hit the market, but they will come with reduced range, which is a loss 
and a gain because the rest of the drivetrain will have a lot more use 
than a 60K+ ICE vehicle...   So the only takeaway is that it's still a 
rapidly evolving market, but the ICE builders already see the writing 
on the wall....  New teslas come with integrated battery packs which I 
think is going to be a problem in the future, but I am not going to be 
the one dealing with that...


On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote:

Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. For 
me it's not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one 
direction and then back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to 
want to take a trip and covers 300 or more miles in that day on the 
long trip. I do not want to be limited to 250 miles before I have to 
stop for an extended period to recharge. Personally that is a serious 
limit on my personal freedom of movement. For instance it's not 
uncommon for spring or winter breaks to drive from upstate NY to 
Florida in a single 24 hour period. When you only have a week for 
vacation tag team driving to get there with a carload of people is 
still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the restriction of being 
able to haul larger loads similarly are a big limitation. Having a 27 
foot camper to load the family up and take a vacation is not possible 
with the current availability of EV's out there.



Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual cost 
of the vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like to 
buy used vehicles with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 
grand(usually a lot less) and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car 
payment in over 15 years and do not want to be forced in to having to 
do so. With getting closer to retirement age every year, I do not 
want to be forced in to incurring debt. For me the goal is to be debt 
free, not have to fork over 30 grand or more just to be able to 
continue to transport myself around. People making decisions like no 
more gas engines for lawn mowers and such, they tend to live in some 
sort of state of constant debt, if they are in government they have 
no concept of not being in debt. Most will think I am crazy for 
thinking this way because society just wants to accept that debt is a 
necessary way of life. That debt for purchasing and converting to 
EV's and getting away from fossil fuels is in my mind not being 
fairly considered in the process.


Thank you,
Brian Webster


-----Original Message-----
From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube.   Seems
like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain...

On 2/14/22 09:56, [email protected] wrote:

Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with the 
EV’s

Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have often
wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how it
affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in
January and February.

Thanks,

Brandon

*From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery tech
gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel.

bp

<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

     Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also
     better at torque than diesel and gasoline.

     Where they don't shine is range when actually working.



     -----
     Mike Hammett
     Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
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<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 




     *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]> 
<mailto:[email protected]>

     *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
     *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM
     *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

     It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1 gallon
     of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80 KWH

     batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on the 
rough

     equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas.

     bp

     <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

     On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:


         The funny thing is that while diesel has superior 
performance to

         gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to diesel
         in many ways.

         Kinda ironic...



         -----
         Mike Hammett
         Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
         Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
         The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
         <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 



         *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]>
         <mailto:[email protected]>
         *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
         *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM
         *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

         It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for people
         who think EVs are the devil's spawn.

         bp

         <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

         On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


             In the past year I've observed that agressive driving 
seems
             to be the norm now.  More assholes, especially pickups 
using
             farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke).  I been 
thinking of

             investing in a stash of bumper stickers to stick on their
             trucks that says "shoot me please".

             On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote:

                 Its possible that with the lower threshold more folks
                 were able to be arrested before they couldgo fora
                 croaker cruise.

                 Its more probable though that ride sharing grew during

                 that period and the generation of party drinkers 
used it

                 more as a matter of trend.

                 Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise
                 inaccessible due to the rona too probably playeda huge
                 role, like the seeming disappearance of flu.

                 On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF
                 <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

                     During Covid, in Utah, there have been the highest
                     rate of deaths ever recorded due to car crashes.

                     Meanwhile, at approximately the same time another
                     experiment was running.

                     Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol level for
                     driving from .08 to .05%.


                     Many, including myself, figured that there 
would not

                     be a significant difference.


                     But I also commented at the time that this one 
will

                     be easy to prove or disprove.


                     Deaths and crashes linked to drunken driving 
dropped

                     by 19.8% since the law took effect.  I think one

                     could say that is statistically significant.  
Glad I

                     was wrong.

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