Well that is kind of a good point that I want to have people think about. You still have your ICE vehicle to fall back on. Being forced in to the restricted ability on the distance you can travel from your point of origin is not the American way. Kind of like having to wear an ankle bracelet, but this one has a long enough leash you don’t think you will ever exceed that leash length, that is until YOU need it to be longer and now you can’t have it any longer because the die has been cast. I am always amazed by the outrage of a rule or regulation that finally infringes on a group of people that didn’t ever think it was a big deal because to them personally they never thought it would be a big deal or affect them personally.
When politicians get so they think they are doing good things for society, there are always things like the law of unintended consequences….. Politicians are too busy thinking about the next election cycle and raising campaign funds to do any serious long term thought or planning. It’s the nature of that beast. It would be nice if society could adopt a thought process of giving consideration for how things might affect others even if they think it would never apply to them. The “hey that doesn’t make a difference to me” mentality is always worrisome to me. I have always maintained that things like freedom of speech should be maintained even when I absolutely hate what someone is saying. I don’t have to agree with them to want to defend their right and freedom. Same thing with religion. If we don’t defend those rights, who is to say that someday the majority of others don’t agree with you or your religion or right to want to speak? If you have allowed the freedom to be modified or restricted based on a previous belief that your belief at the time was righteous, but you now find yourself in the minority….well that is how liberty is lost. But I probably sound like a grumpy old fart…lol Thank you, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 4:00 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers It's a valid point. Pretty much every town with a population of more than 500 has at least one gas station, so you're not really doing any planning. Most small towns (once you get off the interstates) don't have a public charger, much less fast chargers, and there are still places where there's really no realistic way to go with my Tesla (that said, I have yet to want to go to one of those places, and if I did, I'd just drive my Jeep and get 16 MPG...). But I'd still argue that for 90% of people EVs are actually more convenient. On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:52 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: You plan your trips around gas stations, why not chargers? ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 2:49:51 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >plan your trip around chargers This is straight awful IMO. I want to stop when I want to stop, not when I need to stop. You're absolutely forced to do lunch within a few steps of that charger. If you don't mind fast food that's probably a moot point, but when I go to a different area I absolutely do not want anything like that or anything I'm routinely familiar with. Different strokes, different folks. I looked at a Taycan and while it drives amazing, the trunk is worse than the Panamera (seriously wtf) and the range issue is a killer for me (being my daily). On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:43 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote: If you're doing 300-500 miles in a day regularly, an EV probably isn't for you at this point. 1-2 times a year, plan your trip around chargers and see the sites that happen to be around those chargers, or rent a gas car. But even now, I really don't think any of that would be a problem in, say, a new Tesla Model S with 400 miles or range... Superchargers are everywhere, and they really don't take that long. to go 500 miles in a day, you'd probably be talking one 20 minute stop... that's basically lunch. On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:33 PM Josh Luthman <[email protected]> wrote: Sure, but let's say it's 1-2 times a year. What do you do if you want to make that long trip? I'm not saying you can't live with an EV, but doing 300-500 miles in a day is certainly not uncommon (especially for me, I have the data to back that up). If you only have an EV and you're limited on routes, you're in a bind. On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:20 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote: The thing is, when you've been driving an EV for awhile, you realize that (at least for most people) 200+ miles trips are such a small percentage of driving, that never having to stop at a gas station the rest of the time is a much bigger benefit. On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:08 PM Josh Luthman <[email protected]> wrote: Who wants to charge their car every 90 minutes for 10 minutes at a time? Time to burn some dust, eat my rubber! On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:48 PM Robert Andrews <[email protected]> wrote: If you are doing a 300 mile trip, your stop at a supercharger for a Model Y would be about 10 minutes to add another 150 miles, so that's not bad when you would be stopping at a gas station for 10 minutes as well. ( I haven't ever gotten out and put even 10 gallons in in less that 7 minutes with using the card and all that, you don't do any of that at a supercharger ) As far as towing is going, I think you will see more and more of the Electric Airstream campers coming down the road that have electric assist, to remove the range losses. There are used EV's on the market and the only reason the prices are high is because the demand is there, the prices will drop as more used ones hit the market, but they will come with reduced range, which is a loss and a gain because the rest of the drivetrain will have a lot more use than a 60K+ ICE vehicle... So the only takeaway is that it's still a rapidly evolving market, but the ICE builders already see the writing on the wall.... New teslas come with integrated battery packs which I think is going to be a problem in the future, but I am not going to be the one dealing with that... On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote: > Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. For me it's > not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one direction and then > back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to want to take a trip and > covers 300 or more miles in that day on the long trip. I do not want to be > limited to 250 miles before I have to stop for an extended period to > recharge. Personally that is a serious limit on my personal freedom of > movement. For instance it's not uncommon for spring or winter breaks to drive > from upstate NY to Florida in a single 24 hour period. When you only have a > week for vacation tag team driving to get there with a carload of people is > still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the restriction of being able to > haul larger loads similarly are a big limitation. Having a 27 foot camper to > load the family up and take a vacation is not possible with the current > availability of EV's out there. > > Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual cost of the > vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like to buy used > vehicles with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 grand(usually a > lot less) and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car payment in over 15 years > and do not want to be forced in to having to do so. With getting closer to > retirement age every year, I do not want to be forced in to incurring debt. > For me the goal is to be debt free, not have to fork over 30 grand or more > just to be able to continue to transport myself around. People making > decisions like no more gas engines for lawn mowers and such, they tend to > live in some sort of state of constant debt, if they are in government they > have no concept of not being in debt. Most will think I am crazy for thinking > this way because society just wants to accept that debt is a necessary way of > life. That debt for purchasing and converting to EV's and getting away from > fossil fuels is in my mind not being fairly considered in the process. > > Thank you, > Brian Webster > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers > > There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube. Seems > like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain... > > On 2/14/22 09:56, [email protected] wrote: >> Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with the EV’s >> Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have often >> wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how it >> affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in >> January and February. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon >> >> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince >> *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >> >> It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery tech >> gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel. >> >> bp >> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >> >> On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> >> Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also >> better at torque than diesel and gasoline. >> >> Where they don't shine is range when actually working. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >> >> It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1 gallon >> of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80 KWH >> batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on the rough >> equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas. >> >> bp >> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >> >> On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> >> The funny thing is that while diesel has superior performance to >> gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to diesel >> in many ways. >> >> Kinda ironic... >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >> >> It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for people >> who think EVs are the devil's spawn. >> >> bp >> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >> >> On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote: >> >> In the past year I've observed that agressive driving seems >> to be the norm now. More assholes, especially pickups using >> farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke). I been thinking of >> investing in a stash of bumper stickers to stick on their >> trucks that says "shoot me please". >> >> On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote: >> >> Its possible that with the lower threshold more folks >> were able to be arrested before they couldgo fora >> croaker cruise. >> >> Its more probable though that ride sharing grew during >> that period and the generation of party drinkers used it >> more as a matter of trend. >> >> Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise >> inaccessible due to the rona too probably playeda huge >> role, like the seeming disappearance of flu. >> >> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> During Covid, in Utah, there have been the highest >> rate of deaths ever recorded due to car crashes. >> >> Meanwhile, at approximately the same time another >> experiment was running. >> >> Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol level for >> driving from .08 to .05%. >> >> Many, including myself, figured that there would not >> be a significant difference. >> >> But I also commented at the time that this one will >> be easy to prove or disprove. >> >> Deaths and crashes linked to drunken driving dropped >> by 19.8% since the law took effect. I think one >> could say that is statistically significant. Glad I >> was wrong. >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> >> >> > -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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