No, certainly not. If you can get an EV for $5K, I wouldn't want it. But I see that as a short term thing. In ten years, a decent $5K (well, the equivaltent of $5K) EV probably isn't going to be uncommon.
And I'd trust my 2013 Tesla more than most 2013 gas cars. On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:04 PM Josh Luthman <[email protected]> wrote: > >But I'd still argue that for 90% of people EVs are actually more > convenient. > > Is cost included in that convenience? Would you trust a $5,000 gas car or > EV more? > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 4:01 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> It's a valid point. Pretty much every town with a population of more than >> 500 has at least one gas station, so you're not really doing any planning. >> Most small towns (once you get off the interstates) don't have a public >> charger, much less fast chargers, and there are still places where there's >> really no realistic way to go with my Tesla (that said, I have yet to want >> to go to one of those places, and if I did, I'd just drive my Jeep and get >> 16 MPG...). >> >> But I'd still argue that for 90% of people EVs are actually more >> convenient. >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:52 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> You plan your trips around gas stations, why not chargers? >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 2:49:51 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>> >>> >plan your trip around chargers >>> >>> This is straight awful IMO. I want to stop when I want to stop, not >>> when I need to stop. >>> >>> You're absolutely forced to do lunch within a few steps of that >>> charger. If you don't mind fast food that's probably a moot point, but >>> when I go to a different area I absolutely do not want anything like that >>> or anything I'm routinely familiar with. >>> >>> Different strokes, different folks. I looked at a Taycan and while it >>> drives amazing, the trunk is worse than the Panamera (seriously wtf) and >>> the range issue is a killer for me (being my daily). >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:43 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> If you're doing 300-500 miles in a day regularly, an EV probably isn't >>>> for you at this point. 1-2 times a year, plan your trip around chargers and >>>> see the sites that happen to be around those chargers, or rent a gas car. >>>> >>>> But even now, I really don't think any of that would be a problem in, >>>> say, a new Tesla Model S with 400 miles or range... Superchargers are >>>> everywhere, and they really don't take that long. to go 500 miles in a day, >>>> you'd probably be talking one 20 minute stop... that's basically lunch. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:33 PM Josh Luthman < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sure, but let's say it's 1-2 times a year. What do you do if you want >>>>> to make that long trip? >>>>> >>>>> I'm not saying you can't live with an EV, but doing 300-500 miles in a >>>>> day is certainly not uncommon (especially for me, I have the data to back >>>>> that up). If you only have an EV and you're limited on routes, you're in >>>>> a >>>>> bind. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:20 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The thing is, when you've been driving an EV for awhile, you realize >>>>>> that (at least for most people) 200+ miles trips are such a small >>>>>> percentage of driving, that never having to stop at a gas station the >>>>>> rest >>>>>> of the time is a much bigger benefit. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:08 PM Josh Luthman < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Who wants to charge their car every 90 minutes for 10 minutes at a >>>>>>> time? Time to burn some dust, eat my rubber! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:48 PM Robert Andrews < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are doing a 300 mile trip, your stop at a supercharger for a >>>>>>>> Model Y would be about 10 minutes to add another 150 miles, so >>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>> not bad when you would be stopping at a gas station for 10 minutes >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> well. ( I haven't ever gotten out and put even 10 gallons in in >>>>>>>> less >>>>>>>> that 7 minutes with using the card and all that, you don't do any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> that at a supercharger ) As far as towing is going, I think you >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> see more and more of the Electric Airstream campers coming down the >>>>>>>> road >>>>>>>> that have electric assist, to remove the range losses. There are >>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>> EV's on the market and the only reason the prices are high is >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> the demand is there, the prices will drop as more used ones hit the >>>>>>>> market, but they will come with reduced range, which is a loss and >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> gain because the rest of the drivetrain will have a lot more use >>>>>>>> than a >>>>>>>> 60K+ ICE vehicle... So the only takeaway is that it's still a >>>>>>>> rapidly >>>>>>>> evolving market, but the ICE builders already see the writing on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> wall.... New teslas come with integrated battery packs which I >>>>>>>> think is >>>>>>>> going to be a problem in the future, but I am not going to be the >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> dealing with that... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote: >>>>>>>> > Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. >>>>>>>> For me it's not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one >>>>>>>> direction and then back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to >>>>>>>> want to >>>>>>>> take a trip and covers 300 or more miles in that day on the long trip. >>>>>>>> I do >>>>>>>> not want to be limited to 250 miles before I have to stop for an >>>>>>>> extended >>>>>>>> period to recharge. Personally that is a serious limit on my personal >>>>>>>> freedom of movement. For instance it's not uncommon for spring or >>>>>>>> winter >>>>>>>> breaks to drive from upstate NY to Florida in a single 24 hour period. >>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>> you only have a week for vacation tag team driving to get there with a >>>>>>>> carload of people is still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the >>>>>>>> restriction of being able to haul larger loads similarly are a big >>>>>>>> limitation. Having a 27 foot camper to load the family up and take a >>>>>>>> vacation is not possible with the current availability of EV's out >>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual >>>>>>>> cost of the vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> buy used vehicles with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 >>>>>>>> grand(usually a lot less) and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car >>>>>>>> payment in over 15 years and do not want to be forced in to having to >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> so. With getting closer to retirement age every year, I do not want to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> forced in to incurring debt. For me the goal is to be debt free, not >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to fork over 30 grand or more just to be able to continue to transport >>>>>>>> myself around. People making decisions like no more gas engines for >>>>>>>> lawn >>>>>>>> mowers and such, they tend to live in some sort of state of constant >>>>>>>> debt, >>>>>>>> if they are in government they have no concept of not being in debt. >>>>>>>> Most >>>>>>>> will think I am crazy for thinking this way because society just wants >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> accept that debt is a necessary way of life. That debt for purchasing >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> converting to EV's and getting away from fossil fuels is in my mind not >>>>>>>> being fairly considered in the process. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Thank you, >>>>>>>> > Brian Webster >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> > From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert >>>>>>>> Andrews >>>>>>>> > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM >>>>>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube. >>>>>>>> Seems >>>>>>>> > like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain... >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > On 2/14/22 09:56, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>> >> Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with >>>>>>>> the EV’s >>>>>>>> >> Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have >>>>>>>> often >>>>>>>> >> wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> >> affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> >> January and February. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Brandon >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince >>>>>>>> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM >>>>>>>> >> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>>>> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the >>>>>>>> battery tech >>>>>>>> >> gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> bp >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> >> better at torque than diesel and gasoline. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Where they don't shine is range when actually working. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> ----- >>>>>>>> >> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< >>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< >>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>>> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< >>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>>> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]> <mailto: >>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM >>>>>>>> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1 >>>>>>>> gallon >>>>>>>> >> of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80 >>>>>>>> KWH >>>>>>>> >> batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on >>>>>>>> the rough >>>>>>>> >> equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> bp >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> The funny thing is that while diesel has superior >>>>>>>> performance to >>>>>>>> >> gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to >>>>>>>> diesel >>>>>>>> >> in many ways. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Kinda ironic... >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> ----- >>>>>>>> >> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/ >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< >>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< >>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>>> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< >>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>>> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> < >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM >>>>>>>> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> >> who think EVs are the devil's spawn. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> bp >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> In the past year I've observed that agressive >>>>>>>> driving seems >>>>>>>> >> to be the norm now. More assholes, especially >>>>>>>> pickups using >>>>>>>> >> farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke). I been >>>>>>>> thinking of >>>>>>>> >> investing in a stash of bumper stickers to stick on >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> >> trucks that says "shoot me please". >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Its possible that with the lower threshold more >>>>>>>> folks >>>>>>>> >> were able to be arrested before they couldgo >>>>>>>> fora >>>>>>>> >> croaker cruise. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Its more probable though that ride sharing grew >>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>> >> that period and the generation of party >>>>>>>> drinkers used it >>>>>>>> >> more as a matter of trend. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Drinking establishments being closed or >>>>>>>> otherwise >>>>>>>> >> inaccessible due to the rona too probably >>>>>>>> playeda huge >>>>>>>> >> role, like the seeming disappearance of flu. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via >>>>>>>> AF >>>>>>>> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> During Covid, in Utah, there have been the >>>>>>>> highest >>>>>>>> >> rate of deaths ever recorded due to car >>>>>>>> crashes. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Meanwhile, at approximately the same time >>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>> >> experiment was running. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol >>>>>>>> level for >>>>>>>> >> driving from .08 to .05%. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Many, including myself, figured that there >>>>>>>> would not >>>>>>>> >> be a significant difference. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> But I also commented at the time that this >>>>>>>> one will >>>>>>>> >> be easy to prove or disprove. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Deaths and crashes linked to drunken >>>>>>>> driving dropped >>>>>>>> >> by 19.8% since the law took effect. I >>>>>>>> think one >>>>>>>> >> could say that is statistically >>>>>>>> significant. Glad I >>>>>>>> >> was wrong. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>>> >> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >> < >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>>> >> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>>> >> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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