>But I'd still argue that for 90% of people EVs are actually more convenient.
Is cost included in that convenience? Would you trust a $5,000 gas car or EV more? On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 4:01 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote: > It's a valid point. Pretty much every town with a population of more than > 500 has at least one gas station, so you're not really doing any planning. > Most small towns (once you get off the interstates) don't have a public > charger, much less fast chargers, and there are still places where there's > really no realistic way to go with my Tesla (that said, I have yet to want > to go to one of those places, and if I did, I'd just drive my Jeep and get > 16 MPG...). > > But I'd still argue that for 90% of people EVs are actually more > convenient. > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:52 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > >> You plan your trips around gas stations, why not chargers? >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> >> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 2:49:51 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >> >> >plan your trip around chargers >> >> This is straight awful IMO. I want to stop when I want to stop, not when >> I need to stop. >> >> You're absolutely forced to do lunch within a few steps of that charger. >> If you don't mind fast food that's probably a moot point, but when I go to >> a different area I absolutely do not want anything like that or anything >> I'm routinely familiar with. >> >> Different strokes, different folks. I looked at a Taycan and while it >> drives amazing, the trunk is worse than the Panamera (seriously wtf) and >> the range issue is a killer for me (being my daily). >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:43 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> If you're doing 300-500 miles in a day regularly, an EV probably isn't >>> for you at this point. 1-2 times a year, plan your trip around chargers and >>> see the sites that happen to be around those chargers, or rent a gas car. >>> >>> But even now, I really don't think any of that would be a problem in, >>> say, a new Tesla Model S with 400 miles or range... Superchargers are >>> everywhere, and they really don't take that long. to go 500 miles in a day, >>> you'd probably be talking one 20 minute stop... that's basically lunch. >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:33 PM Josh Luthman < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Sure, but let's say it's 1-2 times a year. What do you do if you want >>>> to make that long trip? >>>> >>>> I'm not saying you can't live with an EV, but doing 300-500 miles in a >>>> day is certainly not uncommon (especially for me, I have the data to back >>>> that up). If you only have an EV and you're limited on routes, you're in a >>>> bind. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:20 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The thing is, when you've been driving an EV for awhile, you realize >>>>> that (at least for most people) 200+ miles trips are such a small >>>>> percentage of driving, that never having to stop at a gas station the rest >>>>> of the time is a much bigger benefit. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:08 PM Josh Luthman < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Who wants to charge their car every 90 minutes for 10 minutes at a >>>>>> time? Time to burn some dust, eat my rubber! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:48 PM Robert Andrews < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are doing a 300 mile trip, your stop at a supercharger for a >>>>>>> Model Y would be about 10 minutes to add another 150 miles, so >>>>>>> that's >>>>>>> not bad when you would be stopping at a gas station for 10 minutes >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> well. ( I haven't ever gotten out and put even 10 gallons in in >>>>>>> less >>>>>>> that 7 minutes with using the card and all that, you don't do any of >>>>>>> that at a supercharger ) As far as towing is going, I think you >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> see more and more of the Electric Airstream campers coming down the >>>>>>> road >>>>>>> that have electric assist, to remove the range losses. There are >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> EV's on the market and the only reason the prices are high is >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> the demand is there, the prices will drop as more used ones hit the >>>>>>> market, but they will come with reduced range, which is a loss and a >>>>>>> gain because the rest of the drivetrain will have a lot more use >>>>>>> than a >>>>>>> 60K+ ICE vehicle... So the only takeaway is that it's still a >>>>>>> rapidly >>>>>>> evolving market, but the ICE builders already see the writing on the >>>>>>> wall.... New teslas come with integrated battery packs which I >>>>>>> think is >>>>>>> going to be a problem in the future, but I am not going to be the >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> dealing with that... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote: >>>>>>> > Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. >>>>>>> For me it's not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one >>>>>>> direction and then back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to want >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> take a trip and covers 300 or more miles in that day on the long trip. >>>>>>> I do >>>>>>> not want to be limited to 250 miles before I have to stop for an >>>>>>> extended >>>>>>> period to recharge. Personally that is a serious limit on my personal >>>>>>> freedom of movement. For instance it's not uncommon for spring or winter >>>>>>> breaks to drive from upstate NY to Florida in a single 24 hour period. >>>>>>> When >>>>>>> you only have a week for vacation tag team driving to get there with a >>>>>>> carload of people is still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the >>>>>>> restriction of being able to haul larger loads similarly are a big >>>>>>> limitation. Having a 27 foot camper to load the family up and take a >>>>>>> vacation is not possible with the current availability of EV's out >>>>>>> there. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual >>>>>>> cost of the vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> buy used vehicles with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 >>>>>>> grand(usually a lot less) and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car >>>>>>> payment in over 15 years and do not want to be forced in to having to do >>>>>>> so. With getting closer to retirement age every year, I do not want to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> forced in to incurring debt. For me the goal is to be debt free, not >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> to fork over 30 grand or more just to be able to continue to transport >>>>>>> myself around. People making decisions like no more gas engines for lawn >>>>>>> mowers and such, they tend to live in some sort of state of constant >>>>>>> debt, >>>>>>> if they are in government they have no concept of not being in debt. >>>>>>> Most >>>>>>> will think I am crazy for thinking this way because society just wants >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> accept that debt is a necessary way of life. That debt for purchasing >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> converting to EV's and getting away from fossil fuels is in my mind not >>>>>>> being fairly considered in the process. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Thank you, >>>>>>> > Brian Webster >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> > From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert >>>>>>> Andrews >>>>>>> > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM >>>>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube. >>>>>>> Seems >>>>>>> > like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain... >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On 2/14/22 09:56, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>> >> Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with >>>>>>> the EV’s >>>>>>> >> Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have >>>>>>> often >>>>>>> >> wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> >> affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in >>>>>>> >> January and February. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Thanks, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Brandon >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince >>>>>>> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM >>>>>>> >> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>>> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery >>>>>>> tech >>>>>>> >> gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> bp >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are >>>>>>> also >>>>>>> >> better at torque than diesel and gasoline. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Where they don't shine is range when actually working. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> ----- >>>>>>> >> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< >>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< >>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< >>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]> <mailto: >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM >>>>>>> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1 >>>>>>> gallon >>>>>>> >> of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80 KWH >>>>>>> >> batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on >>>>>>> the rough >>>>>>> >> equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> bp >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> The funny thing is that while diesel has superior >>>>>>> performance to >>>>>>> >> gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to >>>>>>> diesel >>>>>>> >> in many ways. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Kinda ironic... >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> ----- >>>>>>> >> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< >>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< >>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< >>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> < >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> *From: *"Bill Prince" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM >>>>>>> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> >> who think EVs are the devil's spawn. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> bp >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> In the past year I've observed that agressive >>>>>>> driving seems >>>>>>> >> to be the norm now. More assholes, especially >>>>>>> pickups using >>>>>>> >> farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke). I been >>>>>>> thinking of >>>>>>> >> investing in a stash of bumper stickers to stick on >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> >> trucks that says "shoot me please". >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Its possible that with the lower threshold more >>>>>>> folks >>>>>>> >> were able to be arrested before they couldgo fora >>>>>>> >> croaker cruise. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Its more probable though that ride sharing grew >>>>>>> during >>>>>>> >> that period and the generation of party drinkers >>>>>>> used it >>>>>>> >> more as a matter of trend. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise >>>>>>> >> inaccessible due to the rona too probably >>>>>>> playeda huge >>>>>>> >> role, like the seeming disappearance of flu. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>>>>>> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> During Covid, in Utah, there have been the >>>>>>> highest >>>>>>> >> rate of deaths ever recorded due to car >>>>>>> crashes. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Meanwhile, at approximately the same time >>>>>>> another >>>>>>> >> experiment was running. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol >>>>>>> level for >>>>>>> >> driving from .08 to .05%. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Many, including myself, figured that there >>>>>>> would not >>>>>>> >> be a significant difference. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> But I also commented at the time that this >>>>>>> one will >>>>>>> >> be easy to prove or disprove. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Deaths and crashes linked to drunken driving >>>>>>> dropped >>>>>>> >> by 19.8% since the law took effect. I think >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> >> could say that is statistically >>>>>>> significant. Glad I >>>>>>> >> was wrong. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>> >> AF mailing list >>>>>>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >> < >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>> >> AF mailing list >>>>>>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>> >> AF mailing list >>>>>>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
-- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
