Just like tap loss on CATV if you have ever done one of those. Taps closer to
the amp have less insertion loss than taps further down the road.
From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 5:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15
handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting
further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a
spreadsheet and play with it.
On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters
can you put inline before you get too low on light?
Class B or class C optics?
------ Original Message ------
From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too.
The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths,
but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.
Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet.
On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
remember the name of can be uneven.
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
------ Original Message ------
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
misunderstanding you?
On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff
with Ubiquiti's offering...
On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at
that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky,
we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2
miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have
11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie"
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems
like a nightmare.
On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
wrote:
With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another
Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is
accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we
went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
that solves the problem.
Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res
gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
wifi and voip.
We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved
us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com>
wrote:
Chuck,
Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
several other operators using the same setup now too.
It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and
quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about
$1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
this Huawei version.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
Gerard
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:
That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
You are using this now?
From: Gerard Dupont
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24
http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29
http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
Chinese Splice on connector $0.80
http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS
https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
20M $7.66
10M $5.66
Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
$2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's
32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
32 port rackmount splitter. $84
https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
32 port bare splitter for splice case $14
https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So
figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's
$2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for
ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8
customers per port.
You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU
management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can
always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes
to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
Gerard
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00
ONT $ 215.00
Unicam $ 15.00
Cyber Power $ 81.00
Cyber Install $ 110.00
House Sub Total $ 450.00
OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97
OIM $845/32 $ 38.27
Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43
DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67
Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Chuck,
Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+
class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.
So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me
about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer
for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But,
we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are
debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has
some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major
upgrade for several years.
But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON.
You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a
decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We
currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the
GPON side.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com
------
Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:
When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570
invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber
and outdoor cabinets.
When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to
$100 per customer.
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time
convincing myself to do PON.
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Chuck,
PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com
------
Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:
Are you using splitters in splice cases or in
cross connect boxes?
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Adam,
There are some ranging things you have to
consider. "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance
between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."
The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as
we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We
will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we
were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few
miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter
to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.
We build to the lots passed, so we are not
trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50%
utilization on our ports.
--
Best regards,
Mark
mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com
------
Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you
wrote:
Maybe I need to review the math.
I was figuring on several small splitters along
the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I
brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus
ethernet.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies"
<m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Adam,
How far are you going? We are pushing almost
20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?
--
Best regards,
Mark
mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com
------
Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you
wrote:
I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses
per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding
that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5
or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.
The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.
I also figure if I install enough fibers for
AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.
We would never max out the PON port, but
looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should
ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll
"never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be
limited.
-Adam
------ Original Message ------
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
A few reasons...
Port cost is still fairly high.
More splicing.
More fiber required.
Larger chassis required.
More power required.
More battery backup required.
Consumers not even close to using up 1-2
generations back of PON capacity in most places.
On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
So, why do PON and not active in these super
cheap optics days?
From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
We are walking away from them and Alphion...I
think Mark's product with Zhone is different.
Regards,
Chuck
On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett
<af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from
DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far
away form. I don't remember which. ;-)
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
------------------------------------------------
From: "Jason McKemie"
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
In light of finding out that Calix's offering
is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other
suggestions?
I found these guys, but have never heard of
them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've
at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
-Jason
