Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAnd the customer that lost $50K in day trading can’t pay their bill because of that...
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line. Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter to Drop(1-4). Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9. Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8). At this point Drop fibers 5-8 are hot for customers. Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being each of those fibers can be split another 2 times. After 8 lots, splice Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8). Go another 8 lots. Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4. That gives you 32 splits. Repeat the whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 lots. Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice cases. The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction. The 1x2 are only spliced in when putting a customer online. So, if a second customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer. Based on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole. However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as transport between handholes. Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as transport again if needed down the road. This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first. But there are a couple benefits. First, I know my loss exactly everywhere. It won't change as customers are added. Second, when customers are added, there should be no interruption of service to existing customers. I could never figure out how to do that with the taps. Lets say you have a road running north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on. Light comes in from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south. Now lets say someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2. You now have to figure out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the downstream guys. Also, while you are splicing in the new customer, existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line. Murphy's law states as soon as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:[email protected] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com ------ Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote: I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of this example. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM To: Chris Fabien Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:[email protected] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com ------ Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> wrote: There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? Class B or class C optics? ------ Original Message ------ From: "Chris Fabien" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> wrote: Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven. In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jason McKemie" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering... On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <[email protected]> wrote: We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <[email protected]> wrote: Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <[email protected]> wrote: With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem. Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip. We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <[email protected]> wrote: Chuck, Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. You are using this now? From: Gerard Dupont Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html 20M $7.66 10M $5.66 Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port. You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:[email protected] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com ------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:[email protected] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com ------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:[email protected] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com ------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <[email protected]> To: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:[email protected] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com ------ Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam ------ Original Message ------ From: "Josh Reynolds" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ------------------------------------------------ From: "Jason McKemie" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
