Mark -

You're just using standard splitters?

On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com>
wrote:

> Chris,
>
> You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing
> service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a
> bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we
> wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the
> future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to
> design this on a 12 fiber drop cable.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark                            *mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> <m...@mailmt.com>
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *------ Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: *
>
> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>
> Class B or class C optics?
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
> too.
>
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
> common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
> techs.
>
> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
> PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>
> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
> cabinet.
>
> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>
> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
> remember the name of can be uneven.
> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
> misunderstanding you?
>
> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
> Ubiquiti's offering...
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> wrote:
>
> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
> seems like a nightmare.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several
> other operators using the same setup now too.
>
> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>
> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped.
> I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei
> version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-
> Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=
> a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>
> Gerard
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>
> You are using this now?
>
> *From:* Gerard Dupont
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>
> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-
> gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-
> gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-
> original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-
> port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/
> 20745.html
> 20M $7.66
> 10M $5.66
> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>
> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>
> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/
> 11528.html
> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>
> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>
> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
> port.
>
> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring
> (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>
> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>
> Gerard
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)
> $           29.00
> ONT
> $         215.00
> Unicam
> $           15.00
> Cyber Power
> $           81.00
> Cyber Install
> $         110.00
> House Sub Total
> * $         450.00 *
> OLT $11K/8/32
> $           42.97
> OIM $845/32
> $           38.27
> Splitter $900/32
> $           39.43
> DLC per Sub Subtotal
> * $         120.67 *
> Electronics/Sub Total Expense
> * $         570.67 *
>
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a
> 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.
>
>
> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per
> user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for
> electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But,
> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we
> are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure
> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any
> type of major upgrade for several years.
>
> But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make
> sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to
> mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2
> customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark                            *mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: *
>
> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
> cabinets.
>
> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to
> do PON.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark                            *mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: *
>
> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
> *To:* Adam Moffett
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Adam,
>
> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
> exceed 20Km."
>
> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>
> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons
> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.
>
> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
> per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark                            *mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: *
>
> Maybe I need to review the math.
>
> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't
> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber
> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Adam,
>
> How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.
> Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark                            *mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *------ Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: *
>
> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking
> at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line
> down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then
> I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses
> per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
>
> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't
> seeming to work out for me.
>
> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON
> some day if I want to.
>
> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years
> of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can
> put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as
> far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> A few reasons...
>
> Port cost is still fairly high.
>
> More splicing.
>
> More fiber required.
>
> Larger chassis required.
>
> More power required.
>
> More battery backup required.
>
> Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity
> in most places.
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
>
> *From:* Chuck Hogg
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
> Zhone is different.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
> which.  ;-)
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>
> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>
> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>
> -Jason
>

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