Thanks for the information Mark, might have to sketch this out to fully wrap my head around it though :)
On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: > Chuck, > > > Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line. Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter > to Drop(1-4). Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9. > Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8). At this point Drop fibers 5-8 > are hot for customers. Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being > each of those fibers can be split another 2 times. After 8 lots, splice > Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8). Go another 8 lots. > Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4. That gives you 32 splits. Repeat the > whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 > lots. Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice > cases. The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction. The 1x2 > are only spliced in when putting a customer online. So, if a second > customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer. Based > on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole. > However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop > up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as > transport between handholes. Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as > transport again if needed down the road. > > This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first. But there are a > couple benefits. First, I know my loss exactly everywhere. It won't > change as customers are added. Second, when customers are added, there > should be no interruption of service to existing customers. I could never > figure out how to do that with the taps. Lets say you have a road running > north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on. Light comes in > from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south. Now lets say > someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2. You now have to figure > out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the > downstream guys. Also, while you are splicing in the new customer, > existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line. Murphy's law states as soon > as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or > B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark *mailto:m...@mailmt.com > <m...@mailmt.com> > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *------ Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote: * > > I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of > this example. > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM > *To:* Chris Fabien > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chris, > > You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing > service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a > bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we > wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the > future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to > design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark *mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *------ Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: * > > You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few > handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about > 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are > starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up > a spreadsheet and play with it. > > On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 > splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? > > Class B or class C optics? > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have > long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile > too. > > The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in > any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are > common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON > wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON > techs. > > Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" > PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. > > We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole > with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the > cabinet. > > On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got > 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. > > I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't > remember the name of can be uneven. > In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and > the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> > Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I > misunderstanding you? > > On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with > Ubiquiti's offering... > > On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > > We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that > splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and > 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be > tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I > can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline > and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. > > On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote: > > Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been > considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, > seems like a nightmare. > > > On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > > With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan > ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. > The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went > with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router > that solves the problem. > > Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway > when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC > wifi and voip. > > We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot > of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. > > > > On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: > > Chuck, > > Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several > other operators using the same setup now too. > > It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made > unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. > > You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. > I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei > version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original- > Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm= > a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx > > Gerard > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. > > You are using this now? > > *From:* Gerard Dupont > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. > > ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte- > gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto- > gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html > ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc- > original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice- > port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html > Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 > 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/ > 20745.html > 20M $7.66 > 10M $5.66 > Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) > > ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 > $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. > Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 > customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. > > 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html > 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/ > 11528.html > 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 > > None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few > hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. > > Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per > customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS > + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per > port. > > You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring > (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) > > I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always > overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to > upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to > combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different > wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. > > Gerard > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > ONT Housing (Clam Shell) > $ 29.00 > ONT > $ 215.00 > Unicam > $ 15.00 > Cyber Power > $ 81.00 > Cyber Install > $ 110.00 > House Sub Total > *$ 450.00 * > > > OLT $11K/8/32 > $ 42.97 > OIM $845/32 > $ 38.27 > Splitter $900/32 > $ 39.43 > DLC per Sub Subtotal > *$ 120.67 * > > > > > Electronics/Sub Total Expense > *$ 570.67 * > > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, > > Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a > 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. > > > So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per > user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for > electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, > we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we > are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure > Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any > type of major upgrade for several years. > > But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make > sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to > mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 > customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark *mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: * > > When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe > electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor > cabinets. > > When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. > For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to > do PON. > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, > > PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark *mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: * > > Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM > *To:* Adam Moffett > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Adam, > > There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement > when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot > exceed 20Km." > > The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long > stretches of roads between neighborhoods. > > We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the > last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count > cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on > density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons > 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. > > We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage > per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. > > > > > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark *mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *------ Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: * > > Maybe I need to review the math. > > I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't > compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber > back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> > To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> > Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > Adam, > > How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. > Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark *mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *------ Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: * > > I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking > at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line > down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then > I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses > per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. > > Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't > seeming to work out for me. > > I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON > some day if I want to. > > We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years > of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can > put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as > far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. > > -Adam > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > A few reasons... > > Port cost is still fairly high. > > More splicing. > > More fiber required. > > Larger chassis required. > > More power required. > > More battery backup required. > > Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity > in most places. > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? > > *From:* Chuck Hogg > *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with > Zhone is different. > > Regards, > Chuck > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN > that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember > which. ;-) > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM > *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere > near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? > > I found these guys, but have never heard of them: > http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 > > It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: > http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf > > -Jason >
