I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with their MST/DLX options.
Regards, Chuck On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few > handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about > 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are > starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up > a spreadsheet and play with it. > > On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 >> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? >> >> Class B or class C optics? >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have >> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile >> too. >> >> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made >> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They >> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON >> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON >> techs. >> >> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second >> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. >> >> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole >> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the >> cabinet. >> >> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's >>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. >>> >>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't >>> remember the name of can be uneven. >>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", >>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". >>> >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I >>> misunderstanding you? >>> >>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with >>> Ubiquiti's offering... >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>> >>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that >>>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and >>>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be >>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >>>> >>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. >>>> com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >>>> seems like a nightmare. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another >>>>> Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is >>>>> accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU >>>>> we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a >>>>> different >>>>> router that solves the problem. >>>>> >>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway >>>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC >>>>> wifi and voip. >>>>> >>>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a >>>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >>>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality >>>>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >>>>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to >>>>>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc >>>>>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626 >>>>>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx >>>>>> >>>>>> Gerard >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You are using this now? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon >>>>>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu- >>>>>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html >>>>>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o >>>>>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port >>>>>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html >>>>>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connec >>>>>>> tor_0391 >>>>>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS >>>>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html >>>>>>> 20M $7.66 >>>>>>> 10M $5.66 >>>>>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 >>>>>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. >>>>>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 >>>>>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11 >>>>>>> 948.html >>>>>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 >>>>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html >>>>>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a >>>>>>> few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per >>>>>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with >>>>>>> POTS >>>>>>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers >>>>>>> per >>>>>>> port. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU >>>>>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always >>>>>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to >>>>>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different >>>>>>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new >>>>>>> ONT's. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gerard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 >>>>>>>> ONT $ 215.00 >>>>>>>> Unicam $ 15.00 >>>>>>>> Cyber Power $ 81.00 >>>>>>>> Cyber Install $ 110.00 >>>>>>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 >>>>>>>> OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 >>>>>>>> Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 >>>>>>>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM >>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class >>>>>>>> laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about >>>>>>>> $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. >>>>>>>> But, >>>>>>>> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm >>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> type of major upgrade for several years. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need >>>>>>>> to make sure you fully understand both options before making a >>>>>>>> decision. >>>>>>>> Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently >>>>>>>> have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON >>>>>>>> side. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark * >>>>>>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in >>>>>>>> cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and >>>>>>>> outdoor cabinets. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per >>>>>>>> customer. >>>>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing >>>>>>>> myself to do PON. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* Adam Moffett >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The >>>>>>>> requirement >>>>>>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot >>>>>>>> exceed 20Km." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long >>>>>>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that >>>>>>>> into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles >>>>>>>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 >>>>>>>> splitter >>>>>>>> to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light >>>>>>>> budget. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max >>>>>>>> usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our >>>>>>>> ports. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe I need to review the math. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I >>>>>>>> didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought >>>>>>>> every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus >>>>>>>> ethernet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> >>>>>>>> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 >>>>>>>> split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *------Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm >>>>>>>> looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I >>>>>>>> run >>>>>>>> the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 >>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>> and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 >>>>>>>> or so >>>>>>>> houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just >>>>>>>> aren't seeming to work out for me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch >>>>>>>> to PON some day if I want to. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past >>>>>>>> 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say >>>>>>>> "never". In >>>>>>>> AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Adam >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A few reasons... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Port cost is still fairly high. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More splicing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More fiber required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Larger chassis required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More power required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More battery backup required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON >>>>>>>> capacity in most places. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Chuck Hogg >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM >>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product >>>>>>>> with Zhone is different. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was >>>>>>>> DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't >>>>>>>> remember which. ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM >>>>>>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be >>>>>>>> anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other >>>>>>>> suggestions? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them: >>>>>>>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of >>>>>>>> them: >>>>>>>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_2014052017 >>>>>>>> 4927.pdf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Jason >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>
