Could a logical simulation discover hidden principles of science if p=np ? The 'physics' of the universe could be so extensive that even a p=np simulation environment might not be able to discover the hidden principles of science or even discover the logical discrepancies of the science of the day. For example, the wave-particle duality is a great candidate for an artifact of p<>np. (If we had p=np then it is much more likely that people could discover the solution to what seems like a paradox.) The problem is that the range of effects of particle physics could be so extensive - or just so wrong - that more extensive simulations still might not be able to find evidence to support an explanation or an alternative elementary theory for physics. On the other hand, following the primary motivation (if not the methods or conclusions) of the logical positivists the p vs np dilemma certainly looks like it might be a fundamental problem of contemporary science. Jim Bromer
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 7:29 AM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: > Following this conversation with interest. I think, the complexity of life, > as we know it, cannot be explained by P alone. The stronger contention might > be that P and NP must both be present at all times. If we could satisfy this > contention for "simulation", then logic indicates both NP-Hard and > NP-Complete have to exist within the context of this "Simulation". > > Is it relevant whether we experience reality as a simulation, or not? How > would we even know if it was a simulation, unless we could find a window in > the simulation to climb through and look at it from the outside? That is the > problem of scalable deabstraction, which is also 100% resident within the > context of reducing NP to P. Is it heuristic enough to flow through > boundaries as if they do not exist? > > Rob > ________________________________ > From: Jim Bromer via AGI <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, 09 July 2018 10:54 AM > To: AGI > Subject: Re: [agi] New Paper - Temporal Singularity and the Fermi Paradox > > Effective world knowledge is based on practical advancements and most > practical advancements cannot be made in pure simulations (like those > that can overtake the advancements in the real world). Something like > a triple abstraction principle in mathematics including the > transformational algorithms that would go with them could be gained in > simulations, so a n=np algorithm, if one is feasible, might be found > in a simulation like this. And it might go unnoticed by the human > operators of the simulation. > Jim Bromer > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Stefan Reich via AGI > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Where's the relation there? >> >> Maybe our simulation is run on supercomputers of NP power. >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 at 07:52, Shashank Yadav <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> If we are living in a simulation, then P equals NP, I think. >>> >>> - >>> Shashank >>> >>> >>> ---- On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 08:53:31 +0530 Mark Nuzz via AGI >>> <[email protected]> wrote ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:15 PM, Matt Mahoney via AGI >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Recursive self improvement in a closed environment is not possible >>> because >>> intelligence depends on knowledge and computing power. These can only >>> come >>> from outside the simulation. >>> >>> >>> I generally agree with this. But let's go into the esoteric world for a >>> moment and consider: Suppose we ourselves are living in a simulation, >>> then >>> what implications does this have? >>> Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + >>> participants + delivery options Permalink >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Stefan Reich >> BotCompany.de // Java-based operating systems >> Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + >> participants >> + delivery options Permalink > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + participants > + delivery options Permalink ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T81817474dba9a838-M84eaa9a05c11b4dc3a3d0c58 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups
