Hi, I'm very new to this list, AGI and AI in general, and probably have less of an understanding than Mike.
From what I've read - for the water example, say we took that photo and gave it to an AGI. Wouldn't PLN and some visual processing be able to infer (based on past experience) that all that blue is probably sky, theres multiple shapes that appear to be on a plane (inferring the plane is transparent, probably glass) - would bring up a bunch of nodes of things that could be related/attached to glass and sky one of them being water - from other experiences/knowledge they're would be networks that would branch out to water being particles/h20/fluid dynamics etc etc (should probably cut off the algorithm before this point).. and therefore all those distinctly different shapes are probably some kind of fluid, probably water (unless in the context there is a higher probability of it being, i dunno, urine?) AFAIK the shape recognition itself - as in all those shapes belonging to water - is almost irrelevant - because theres more conceptual data that can be inferred from the image, from previous learning. Building up a huge dataset of various shapes of everything seems like it will lead to an infinite dataset which would be impractical to traverse and will for sure produce collisions. The above also applies to your dancing example, PLN looks like it's capable of abstracting away a dance move from a human body, - if it saw a human body dancing it would infer all humans can mimic that dance move, including the ones that dont have 2 arms and 2 legs - the AGI could relate this atom-set to all mammals - all animals - if it traverses further up its 'human concept' tree. Would be interesting to see how it could prove an inanimate object is capable of that dance move - without having seen it before. So I can personally see how AGI is able to grasp what's in an image, at least with a 'highish' probability. As long as it has enough previous experience/knowledge. I feel like Mike is coming from a purely Visual Processing stance - and in that sense I agree with him, no amount of vanilla image processing is going to work. Please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm learning as much as possible for the AGI Summer School in Iceland Regards, Jarrad On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote: > P.S. To explain further: I said that the brain(-and-body) understands > changes of form by robotic/embodied principles. So how is it that you are > able to understand a body in any new dance shape as a human body? Note that > all kinds of weird new dance moves we've never seen before are continually > being invented. > > You understand those shapes by literally simulating them with your body - > asking: could my body take that new shape? Your body does not need to go > all the way to simulate new body movements - it can prefigure them, for it > is all the time prefiguring and checking prospective movements. (In this way > your brain-body system tells you that your injured foot cannot make a > certain normally habitual movement, BEFORE you ever make it). If the human > brain-and-body can do this, robots can and will have to do this, (if only > eventually). > > There is a great deal of evidence that this kind of simulation actually > happens. > > We understand how other kinds of body, like water or lava, move by also > simulating them with our body, comparing them to how we move. > > To the classic AI mind, this sounds at first v. complex and wild, but > actually it's vastly more parsimonious than a blind, fantastically > convoluted geometric approach, which hasn't worked and can't work. > > I'm suggesting we have to really "grasp" visual shapes to understand them > and their many transformations. > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/22581513-9fe46a1c > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
