Mike Tintner: "Rationality – and everyone here, except for me, is in effect a rationalist – presupposes a CONSTANT schema – just as you have said, and just as Plato implied 2,500 years ago. That’s because you are still intellectually living in the age of text, where everything you see is constant and unchanging. Move into the new millennium of movies, which are now a sine qua non, and you realise that everything is FLUID/MOVING... Fluid schemas are doubly essential because – the other thing that all here forget – an AGI of any kind must get to know and classify objects *piecemeal/gradually*, developmentally."
------------------------------------ But movies are based on still images. It is not how the transitions are accomplished as long as the nature of transition is accounted for. But the motion of the universe is only one aspect of reality and mind that an intelligent entity needs to be deal with. Jim Bromer On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:16 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Mike A: > > All of Mike T's arguments seem to me to stem from a standpoint of > extreme empiricism. He doesn't seem to acknowledge anything other than > precisely what is under consideration. Even though a chair top can look > different in all cases, in all cases there IS a constant, and that is that > the essence of a chair persists. Philosophers have long fought with these > issues, and as most know it was Kant who came closest (arguably) to > reconciling the empiricists and the rationalizers. > > No I’m not a pure empiricist. (The philosophical/psychological background > is loosely important – recent comments seem unaware that this is one of > the most controversial areas). > > The difference is indeed about rationality – about what *kind* of > schema/classificatory devices the mind (human or any real world mind) must > impose on its images of objects. Rationality – and everyone here, except > for me, is in effect a rationalist – presupposes a CONSTANT schema – just > as you have said, and just as Plato implied 2,500 years ago. That’s because > you are still intellectually living in the age of text, where everything > you see is constant and unchanging. > > Move into the new millennium of movies, which are now a sine qua non, and > you realise that everything is FLUID/MOVING – and different individual > versions of things are different from (and in effect fluid versions of) > others. > > There is no constant, essential waterdrop or human being, or chair or > apple – especially in a world in which all things may be and usually are > transformed by external means in all kinds of way – like being stepped on, > smashed, burned or fragmented - if you just look, that lack of a constant > is self-evident. But you don’t look – you a priori seek to impose the > constant frameworks of language, maths and logic on a fluid world – > determined to defend them to the death – despite the fact that they > obviously are a complete, never failing to fail, bust for > conceptualisation/recognition and anything AGI. > > For a fluid, transformational world and objects, you need fluid, > transformational schemas – but there is nothing in the “languages” you know > about them, and you’re not open to new ideas. > > Fluid schemas are doubly essential because – the other thing that all here > forget – an AGI of any kind must get to know and classify objects > *piecemeal/gradually*, developmentally. The first chair or dog you see may > not be at all a typical or common one. All the current approaches to AGI > assume a *full knowledge/fully developed mind* - with well structured > concept graphs and a fully developed grammar - which has in effect already > learned more or less all it really needs to know - quite, quite absurd. > Every approach in the field is only appropriate to a fully knowledgeable > narrow AI routine/subsystem, not to a real world AGI, complete system > gradually, fluidly getting to know the world. > > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
