Well, I am all for being extreme, I guess... I qualified it by saying "extreme loner" like Nietzsche.
I suspect a lot of the personality types that get on AGI are the introvert loner sort, very highly opinionated and living in a world of ideas, not of concrete objects, with idealistic traits and the almost religious conviction that their method -- and their method alone -- is *the* solution! On 3/12/13, Boris Kazachenko <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks Mike! > >> socializing is usually good though, in moderation, at least in terms of >> expanding your network. > > Depends on your priorities, this post was about focus on abstractions. I'd > question the value of networks in AGI. Google does a decent job of finding / > promoting relevant content, as long as your know your keywords. Try > something as general as cognition+algorithm, what do you see? If you post a > coherent write-up, anyone on the wavelength is likely to find it, networks > be damned. If there isn't anyone anywhere, tough shit, your network will > only distract you. > >> some extreme loners like Nietzsche on the other hand could make great use >> of their hours alone, > > Needless to say, "non-extreme" people are, at best, quite useless in AGI. > >> however the problem then is getting too out of touch with reality. > > Well, there are two ways to interpret this: > > a) You're worried about making a living. This is a largely atavistic > concern, it's pretty hard to starve to death in a modern society. A > night-shift security job is plenty sufficient. > b) Your model of reality is wrong. > That can be a problem if you're confabulating something concrete, where > there is a gazillion of possibilities & only one is "real". But on higher > levels of generalization, reality check is a judgment call anyway. In AGI, > you are generalizing from everything you know, & filter-out almost all of > it. Additional / updated knowledge won't make nearly as much difference as > refining your past learning experience, into universals applicable across > all of it. The problem here is not getting things right | real, it's > removing redundancies & non-universals. > All that is about inductive phase of work, when you get to deductive phase > the criterion changes from "reality" to consistency. > > > BTW, everyone, I am posting relevant replies as comments on my blog, let me > know if you mind. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Mike Archbold" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:49 PM > To: "AGI" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [agi] Attention to abstractions > >> very well thought, Boris. I agree with your thoughts about the Web. >> It strikes me as the most useful utility but horrible time suck ever >> invented. smart phones are even worse... I don't have one but have >> tinkered around with others phones to know what is at least going on! >> the answer is it just brings a time wasting to you >> around-the-clock.... socializing is usually good though, in >> moderation, at least in terms of expanding your network. some extreme >> loners like Nietzsche on the other hand could make great use of their >> hours alone, however the problem then is getting too out of touch with >> reality. >> >> Mike Archbold (I get weird sentence structure with voice recognition) >> >> On 3/6/13, Boris Kazachenko <[email protected]> wrote: >>> A (not so) new conclusion on my intro >>> (http://www.cognitivealgorithm.info): >>> >>> . I am deeply convinced that main challenge we face in formalizing GI is >>> our >>> specie-wide ADHD. >>> Our cognitive psychology, lagging a light year behind our technology, is >>> addicted to mental crutches of authority, examples, & experimentation, >>> while >>> theoretical integrity is neglected & abused. >>> >>> It's pretty obvious that AGI is by far the most important problem now. >>> Yet, >>> not one out of 7B people pays it his full attention. A handful of people >>> claim to do so, but they all find excuses to fluff & tinker, at the >>> expense >>> of building coherent theory. To me, it's a stark proof that a dressed-up >>> ape >>> desperately needs therapy. I've experimented with various methods to >>> focus >>> on my meta-theory, with subjective success. For those who like the >>> results >>> (above), I posted suggestions on my other blog: >>> >>> >>> Cultivating focus on extreme generalizations. >>> >>> >>> Sustaining top-down attention is critical for anything complex, >>> especially a >>> theoretical breakthrough. Such ability is scarce because we evolved to >>> focus >>> on here & now survival, while far & future was back-of-the-mind luxury. >>> Modern society is drastically more secure, but our attention spans lag >>> far >>> behind. Almost anyone can become a world-changing genius, if he spends >>> 10 >>> years fully focused on important problem. at the cost of so-called >>> "life": >>> unthinkable for ADHD- addled hunter-gatherers we still are. >>> >>> Attention span as discussed here is not simply a duration of focus on a >>> given subject. Rather, it's a relative strength of higher cortical >>> areas, >>> which represent generalized experience, in selecting subjects for >>> focused >>> attention. For me, selection & basic understanding of my top priority >>> came >>> early & easy. But actually maintaining effective focus on important stuff >>> in >>> spite of ubiquitous distractions was far more difficult. Over the years, >>> I >>> majorly improved my concentration thanks to these observations: >>> >>> >>> Practice, externalizing thoughts, & avoiding distractions: >>> >>> >>> Practice forms increasingly redundant representations, differentiated by >>> their context to explore alternative scenarios. Such redundancy is key >>> to >>> maintaining subconsciously searching threads, even when your >>> consciousness >>> is distracted. It also fills up memory & starves unrelated subjects out >>> of >>> resources. This is very important: irrelevant memories keep competing >>> for >>> our attention until well forgotten. But we need a conducive environment >>> to >>> facilitate this virtuous cycle of practicing. >>> >>> The most basic working environment is a notepad or a computer screen, so >>> we >>> need to fill them with a well designed write-up of the subject matter. >>> The >>> brain, quite obviously, has plenty of memory for a few pages of text, >>> scarce >>> resource here is attention. Writing down thoughts simply turns them into >>> a >>> sensory feedback, which attracts attention much better than internalized >>> abstractions. Also helps a motor feedback, such as vocalizing, writing >>> by >>> hand, semi-random editing/ re-arranging text or code. >>> >>> Even more critical is concise & cohesive (thus memorable) terminology, >>> abbreviations, & symbols, - small enough to keep reverberating within >>> one's >>> working memory. To build a coherent mental model, one should be using/ >>> designing a dedicated pseudo-language, with subject-specific syntax & >>> semantics. Just as important is a macro-structure: comprehensive >>> write-up >>> with regular & contextually integral paragraphs & parts. Basically, one >>> should always try go for quality vs. quantity, continuously refining, >>> consolidating, & extending old articles or programs, rather than >>> piling-up >>> new loosely related ones. >>> >>> Of course, we're social animals, & our most important "environment" is >>> the >>> people we deal with. >>> Hence the urge to bounce our ideas & decisions off others: it forces us >>> to >>> focus on the implications. Your listener's attention (if credible) >>> stimulates yours, even if he doesn't really contribute anything. One >>> solution is a socially-imposed institutional environment, as in a good >>> university or a company. >>> But that requires societal consumer competence, which is sorely lacking >>> in >>> relatively generalized fields. >>> >>> Absent relevant stimulation (be honest about "relevant"), one must block >>> the >>> irrelevant one, AKA life. Real-life socializing is almost always >>> meaningless, at least compared to impersonal reading & writing. But >>> people >>> are so desperate to belong that they will settle for the least >>> irrelevant >>> group they can join, even obviously detrimental to their stated purpose. >>> Suppressing this urge is a must for any significant progress. However >>> miserable social isolation feels at first, avoiding distractions is an >>> effective way to ultimately focus: broadly stimulated brain always does >>> something, so attention is a zero-sum game. Anyway, social stimulation >>> can >>> be largely replaced by "pseudo-social" one: writing or talking to >>> oneself. >>> >>> Beside socializing, the worst attention hog now is the web, & my solution >>> is >>> rationing. Unless there is something urgent or work-related (unlikely), >>> I >>> only connect for ~2 hours once a day. Sticking to it was a challenge, I >>> have >>> to use "Freedom"(& highly recommend it) to keep myself honest. This >>> sounds >>> trivial, but staying off-line made a huge difference to my >>> concentration. >>> And I am not even talking about cell phones, - never considered catching >>> that plague. >>> Also helps using a specific desk, computer, & times of the day only for >>> work, down to locking oneself in. Such cognitive behavioral therapy is >>> also >>> useful with insomnia & other self-control problems. >>> >>> But even more insidious, at least for a generalist like me, are internal >>> distractions: wandering thoughts. Just recently, I came up with a >>> low-tech >>> solution: thought conditioning. Positive conditioning of relevant >>> thoughts >>> seems impractical because the delay is too long, but the negative one is >>> very simple & old-fashioned: catch yourself thinking about some obvious >>> distractions, & slap your face hard. Eventually, these subjects become >>> subconsciously unpleasant, & you will stop thinking about them. Even the >>> habit of specifically monitoring thoughts for distractions already helps >>> to >>> terminate them. >>> >>> A less direct form of thought conditioning is via neurofeedback, article. >>> I >>> currently use, with moderate success, very simple feedback: every day, I >>> write down the number of hours spent effectively focused on work, >>> translating total number of hours spent into top 10% out of recent >>> working >>> hours. >>> More advanced neurofeedback may become possible in relatively near future >>> by >>> visualizing subject-associated cortical activity via transcranial >>> imaging, >>> such as EEG, fMRI, or infrared spectroscopy. >>> >>> Ideally, we should be able to directly stimulate or condition cortical >>> areas >>> that represent the subject we want to focus on, via transcranial direct >>> current, magnetic fields, ultrasound, or even implants. >>> Big-picture intellectual integrity should be improved by stimulating >>> left >>> dorsolateral prefrontal cortex: the last to myelinate during development >>> & >>> containing most general concepts, thus executive function. >>> >>> BCI-assisted control over the focus of one's attention will be the most >>> profound revolution yet, - it will change what we want out of life. But, >>> waiting for the technology might leave you hopelessly behind those who >>> cultivate their attention the old-fashioned way. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >>> Modify Your Subscription: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/18407320-d9907b69 >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
