What is your evidence that people unconsciously reason graphically, even when they feel like they're not?
Of course, it's obvious the brain maintains multiple spatial maps (e.g. the allocentric map in hippocampus, and the egocentric maps in parietal cortex), and links this with visual cortex which is good at visual pattern recognition -- but what's your evidence that this sort of graphical/visual representation is universally widely used by people as the main tool for concept representation? On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote: > !. "You seem to be taking your own personal experience of thinking and > > incorrectly extending it > to everybody..." > > What's at issue here is by no means how people necessarily think a) > consciously and/or b) self-aware-ly (in a way they can report later). (or by > extension my personal thinking). > > No question that a lot of people do a lot of thinking to all conscious > appearances very-to-near-exclusively verbally. Hence GOFAI and text-ual > intelligence approaches. > > What's at issue is how the mind (or any future real AGI mind) thinks as a > whole - incl. unconsciously. > > We are not aware of most of our sensory/graphic reasoning, even when we/A.I. > can be extremely confident it's taking place, e.g. when we navigate through > a crowd, or catch balls, we are v. often not aware of sensory reasoning, > though it must be taking place. > > 2. These other approaches are not consistent with what I'm saying - wh. is > centrally that "fluid/soft" graphics are central to conceptual thought and > movement and reasoning generally (by contrast with the "rigid graphics" of > geometrical and algorithmic thought). I believe also that fluid/soft > graphics are not algorithmic, but are nevertheless computational/robotic and > central to AGI. > > O.K. I'll give you/me a break there - but this has been a productive > exchange. > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Ben Goertzel > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:33 PM > > To: AGI > Subject: Re: [agi] A General O.D. (Operational Definition) for all AGI > projects > >> You reckon Newton thought about apples (etc) falling to earth, and moons >> "falling" round planets, by thinking about their names/words? And >> proceeding >> via logico-verbal inference.,? >> > > I don't know about Newton, but Hadamard wrote a great book based on his > survey > of how various mathematicans thought in the early part of the last century > > http://archive.org/details/eassayonthepsych006281mbp // free online version > > http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychology-Invention-Mathematical-Field/dp/0486201074 > > As his empirical survey makes clear, some of these folks think > verbally, some visually, > some auditorially, some more abstractly.... There is no universal > rule to the way people > experience their thoughts, it seems... > > You seem to be taking your own personal experience of thinking and > incorrectly extending it > to everybody... > > However, your point that *sensory* (not necessarily) visual > representations are critical > to human-like intelligence, is an important one > > But please note that the most fashionable approach to AGI these days > is deep learning, which > incorporates precisely this same idea. So the idea that sensory > representations are critical > is not novel at all -- it's pretty much the new common sense in the AGI > field... > > Deep Mind and Vicarious Systems, for instance, are two of the better > funded AGI projects > around, and both are vision-centric and deep learning centric... > > -- Ben G > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279 > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
