Yeah I know Andi - but I believe there is a way to incorporate graphics via robots - when the lines are interpreted as Fauconnier, Lakoff et al have provided v. strong evidence they are in the human system, in an embodied way - as lines of body movement. It's an extensive subject, not easily covered in ahem a line or two.
On 15 May 2013 00:37, Andrew G. Babian <[email protected]> wrote: > See, Mike, this is where knowing about computer programming makes a > difference. No, there aren't computer graphics systems that work > schematically. It's always pixels arrays, which is quite different. > andi > > Can I help? > > On May 14, 2013, at 6:27 PM, tintner michael <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I'm lost andi - what you're saying is basically consistent with me - > "schematic" = "graphics." > > > On 15 May 2013 00:20, Andrew G. Babian <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Mike, I have a problem with saying vision is a matter of graphics. if >> you look how non-artists draw things, it isn't like they are using imagery, >> People think in terms of schematic parts. When a regular person draws a >> face, for example, they put a head, nose, mouth, not a pixel accurate >> rendition. It takes a very different skill to twist things into a pure >> image. I think even your visual emphasis is not quite right, though I do >> recognize the importance of sensory information. In essence, I think you >> want to get _too_ close to sensation, when there are categorization and >> feedback steps in front of it which are needed for intelligent perception. >> We recreate, we don't recall. And I think you are missing important >> subtleties in that. >> andi >> >> >> On May 14, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Mike Tintner" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > To repeat : no question that multiple sense, multilevel processing is >> going on, and is all vital. I'm just arguing that graphics are central (not >> the whole tree) - and above all central for conceptual processing - what is >> normally called "language" . And AI isn't yet capable of handling real >> language or animal-level concepts. so we have to have an explanation of why. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- From: Andrew G. Babian >> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 6:25 PM >> > To: AGI >> > Subject: Re: [agi] A General O.D. (Operational Definition) for all AGI >> projects >> > >> > While I think it's valuable for Mike to be here emphasizing sensory >> input, my position as well, Ben is clearly right that it isn't a matter of >> graphics being missing. An intelligence must learn to handle all sensory >> inputs, and possibly just touch can feed into the maps, with some work. In >> addition, it's a learned sensory-motor system-- there is also feedback >> between senses and motor output. >> > andi >> > >> > Can I help? >> > >> > On May 14, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> What is your evidence that people unconsciously reason graphically, >> >> even when they feel like they're not? >> >> >> >> Of course, it's obvious the brain maintains multiple spatial maps >> >> (e.g. the allocentric map in hippocampus, and the egocentric maps in >> >> parietal cortex), and links this with visual cortex which is good at >> >> visual pattern recognition -- but what's your evidence that this sort >> >> of graphical/visual representation is universally widely used by >> >> people as the main tool for concept representation? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Mike Tintner < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> !. "You seem to be taking your own personal experience of thinking and >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/3870391-266c919a> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
