Martin,
I was meaning the consciousness in an instance of a particular type of agent, human in this case, that consciousness is a system itself and that system has belief relationships to other systems. The other systems include other human consciousness’s. The mathematics of those belief relationships can be built up as a model with ideas borrowed from human social systems theory, in particular that beautiful thesis by Selva, I agree it’s a gem. This could be one of the "critical factors" in Ben’s paper he has six... or there should be more emphasis on that aspect. Systems to systems belief relationships so with a consciousness’s self-modeling/self-reflecting replace the “self” with another human consciousness.. Maybe that makes it a little clearer, though it’s hard to fit in a small paragraph :) John From: martin biehl via AGI [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2014 11:52 AM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Review paper on measuring consciousness "Deontical Impure Systems, Alysidal algebra, gnorpsic functions" such a beautifully mysterious terminology! I don't get it though (not even partly, so many axioms!!!), it uses some non-standard analysis, sheaves and other serious maths, thanks for the links anyway. Had a good time looking at it. On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Yes, that's interesting. More consideration of the Extended Mind aspects of consciousness would probably be valuable to incorporate in the paper... On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:44 PM, John Rose via AGI <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: > Adding to my comment, one could characterize human-like consciousness in > terms of relationships and beliefs borrowed from social systems theory > including ideas and things similar to Deontical Impure Systems, Alysidal > algebra, gnorpsic functions, etc.. Consciousness you could say is relations > between systems and in this particular case human belief systems, see: > > http://www.gallup.unm.edu/~smarandache/Tesis_Nescolarde.pdf > http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajss/2/2/2/ > > John > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Rose via AGI [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] >> Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 5:33 PM >> To: AGI >> Subject: RE: [agi] Review paper on measuring consciousness >> >> I disagree with this statement: >> >> "Of course, different parameter vectors for the consciousness process will >> tend to lead to different patterns in consciousness contents ... e.g. one is >> unlikely to do one's taxes while tripping on LSD, etc." >> >> Au contraire, completing taxes often requires consuming copious quantities >> of consciousness altering substance! >> >> Seriously, so I captures a chipmunk from my garden in a little cage and put >> him on my desk. After a while he settles down. I look at him, he looks at me >> I >> think, ya he’s conscious. He’s thinking something... in his eyes there is a >> slight >> connection but it’s a (human <-> chipmunk) consciousness sharing >> experience lacking in many ways for both him and I since we’re very >> different. >> >> What’s missing in the paper I think is more emphasis on interaction of one >> human consciousness with other human consciousness. What type of >> consciousness would a feral child have? Or a brain in an isolated vat? >> Ignoring >> panpsychism, quantum consciousness or even consciousness as some sort of >> reinforced belief characterizing human-like consciousness requires multiple >> humans in some way verses only self-reflection/self-modeling. It requires >> that human(s) have existed at some point in time in addition to those that >> may be reading the paper whether or not the readers are human and a >> human consciousness existence might enable tuning such measurements for >> more accuracy. >> >> John >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Ben Goertzel via AGI [mailto:[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]> ] >> > Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 4:50 AM >> > To: AGI >> > Cc: hk-addis >> > Subject: [agi] Review paper on measuring consciousness >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I'd posted a version of this one earlier; the current version fixes >> > some typos and has a few other minor tweaks... >> > >> > http://goertzel.org/goertzel_consciousness_review.pdf >> > >> > The goal is to make sense of various existing theories of >> > consciousness, and try to integrate them into some sort of holistic >> > practical understanding -- while acknowledging that there's still plenty >> > left >> to be discovered!!... >> > >> > ... ben >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Ben Goertzel, PhD >> > http://goertzel.org >> > >> > "In an insane world, the sane man must appear to be insane". -- Capt. >> > James T. Kirk >> > >> > "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery / None but ourselves can free >> > our minds" -- Robert Nesta Marley >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279 > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/? > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> & > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "In an insane world, the sane man must appear to be insane". -- Capt. James T. Kirk "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery / None but ourselves can free our minds" -- Robert Nesta Marley ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10872673-8f99760d Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/? <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> & Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com AGI | <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/248029-82d9122f> | <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Modify Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
