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On 2017-02-11 03:11 PM, Dr Miles Dyson wrote: > When I fall asleep and loose consciousness, the neurons in my brain > do not rearrange themselves such that no feedback loops exist. "during deep slow wave sleep or in certain states of general anesthesia, the interactions among different cortical regions become highly stereotypical. Due to the characteristic bistability between on and off states of most neurons in the cerebral cortex, even though the anatomical connectivity is unchanged, functional and effective connectiv- ity become virtually homogeneous [39,40]. Under such conditions, consciousness invariably fades." from IIT3.0 So the reason you are losing consciousness isn't that the connections are changing, it is the homogeneous interactions of them. > And there are many feedback loops that exist in the brain, but I > don't have many consciousnesses, I have but one. That is not entirely true, while you may have one primary consciousness, you also have a variety of subconscious processes. 'in the human brain there should be a dominant ‘‘main’’ complex of high phi Max, constituted of neural elements within the cortical system, which satisfies the postulates described above and generates the changing qualia of waking consciousness [12]. The set of neuronal elements constituting this main complex is likely to be dynamic [27], at times including and at times excluding particular subsets of neurons. Through its interface elements (called ‘‘ports-in’’ and ‘‘ports-out’’), this main complex receives inputs and provides outputs to a vast number of smaller systems involved in parsing inputs and planning and executing outputs. While interacting with the main complex in both directions, many of these smaller systems may constitute minor complexes specifying little more than a few concepts, which would qualify them as ‘‘minimally conscious’’ (see below). In the healthy, adult human brain the qualia and phi Max generated by the dominant main complex are likely to dwarf those specified by the minimally conscious minor complexes. In addition to the fully conscious main complex and minimally conscious minor complexes, there will be a multitude of unconscious processes mediated by purely feed-forward systems (see below) or by the residual interactions between main complex and minor complexes" IIT3.0 some people even choose to breed imaginary friends in their brains, by allocating required resources to a sub process. lots of people do it "unconsciously" as they have internal representations of others to guess what they may be thinking or feeling. > For both of those reasons consciousness and neural net feedback > loops are not one and the same thing. Feedback may be necessary nut is not the only condition "it has been pointed out that the brain (and many other systems) is full of reentrant circuits, many of which do not seem to contribute to consciousness [51]. IIT offers some specific insights with respect to these issues. First, the need for reciprocal interactions within a complex is not merely an empirical observation, but it has theoretical validity because it is derived directly from the phenomenological axiom of (strong) integration. Second, (strong) integration is by no means the only requirement for consciousness, but must be complemented by information and exclusion. Third, for IIT it is the potential for interactions among the parts of a complex that matters and not the actual occurrence of ‘‘feed-back’’ or ‘‘reentrant’’ signaling, as is usually assumed. As was discussed above, a complex can be conscious, at least in principle, even though none of its neurons may be firing, no feed-back or reentrant loop" IIT3.0 If you have better idea of what structures may be conscious then please share. Thanks > > On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Jim Bromer <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > I don't concur, but it is an interesting placement of the minimum > for (machine) 'consciousness'. I did not realize that 'stateless' > 'pure functions' could be called 'feed forward'. If global effects > were sufficient to induce 'consciousness' then any program with > global effects could be called conscious. Even assuming that you > were being more specific than that I still don't think structures > that can carry states between calls (in the ways that you were > thinking) would be sufficient for conscious behaviors to emerge.. > > Jim Bromer > > On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Logan Streondj > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > I've been promoting Integrated Information Theory for a while but I > finally sat down and read the whole thing yesterday. > > Explicitly it mentions that feed forward neuronets are 'zombies' or > unconscious while recurrent neuronets are conscious due to the > feedback loops. > > So now I'm wondering which classical programming structures are > 'zombies' and which are conscious. > > It would seem by analogy that stateless or pure functions are > zombies since they simply feed forward. > > Wheras structures that carry state between calls such as objects > and actors are conscious. > > Do you concur? > > > > > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail and OpenKeychain. my > fingerprint is bd7e 6e2a e625 6d47 f7ed 30ec 86d8 fc7c fad7 2729 > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-653794b5> > | Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > [Powered by Listbox] <http://www.listbox.com> > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26973278-698fd9ee> > | Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > [Powered by Listbox] <http://www.listbox.com> > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/5037279-a88c7a6d> > | Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; beb0005> > > Your Subscription [Powered by Listbox] <http://www.listbox.com> > - -- Logan Streondj, A dream of Gaia's future. website: http://joyfullifestyle.ca twitter: https://twitter.com/streondj You can use encrypted email with me, how to: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ key fingerprint: BD7E 6E2A E625 6D47 F7ED 30EC 86D8 FC7C FAD7 2729 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYn4MpAAoJEIbY/Hz61ycp0ncQAKzxqGuDgsNnsN2JEjvY22zu P6X5Hjj7loqmCXflan6Upa7Qjbg1aAUr9nfKSAITGvuPoTmPIw4vg8v5ZFfc7ius zBxzt0GwPY/bexeJi9XR0SKIXW1MWfVvkUX40uUDcP/HeQpb/e8tyJX3haLzp+v9 G+mDrr+T62Ueu2PA3ySAQw9dhQkn4QrbHXbj4FoafWDm1Kj7wlmHvAeGMXB0Rybm GvDByq6BgGm5CYK/+dmSPK1gbhjQvSSQIDLEKoZuUObuJwu83yt+QczryWv4D9DK oRVuDTnC7+hjx2M5fxLLRAsLCEv3FcL8nTf7CB7lI3/L77S/HMw/nEaDRucMFXKm pISIMIZaZvyMKCfL41ziD+Ym99JSkrova8oruFyEJXpYiYLnYe3l1ZHTFk0ky5Wf g09bR96irOKNLpmvs++8Z67HQjnyyZw3Cknn1L72/gZ/58iYtWY7UD5+Jrfde5wu HhgC4pAFjAmD4sJxQ/HD+BlkNrUgkPd8sQcuVvcuCEozFxF4JnLl7g9Ffv93CX9w c4eef22eabf6/Z0g92QJ9GhWYRScknzj3kli2PrQU2qA/EwN8AB0bhe4u8XNGE8g IVqepyKme/0AdFtgxOklxNagHu5+Dsv4HLf2zQnVtHyuf3WoRY1r7r59qlxTo9b7 HhKb3YvU/9XiJVMuRvh/ =IR2c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
