The big huge block on the front of android.com says:
<http://market.android.com/>

See the top applications available now on Android Market and publish your
own.

Not "buy a g1 to get android market"....

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Al Sutton <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> And the products you buy are called the G1 and HTC Magic which are
> devices which run the Android OS, you don't buy "Android".
>
> Android.com does not say that Market, IM, Sync, etc. is part of the OS
> (in fact the "What is Android?" page doesn't even mention Market let
> alone giving the impression that it's a part of the OS), it shows what
> apps can be run on Android, and on the front page their is a 4x3 block
> of apps icons, none of these ship as part of the OS, yet they're still
> shown on Android.com.
>
> We all would like to see a lot of things in Android, but our wishes
> don't dictate what Android is.
>
> Al.
>
> Eric Friesen wrote:
> > Yes, obviously. But they call it Darwin not OSX. They are not trying
> > to pass off Darwin as anything it's not. So what is your point?
> >
> > -E
> >
> > On Mar 19, 1:05 am, Al Sutton <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Ermm... Have you neve seen Apple Darwin?
> >> (http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html)
> >>
> >> Al.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Eric Friesen wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's not an argument that Google shouldn't be allowed to have their
> >>> closed source apps, or that carriers are taking the open source code
> >>> and modifying it. I think we all understand why these things happen.
> >>> The problem is that they take this approach but then want to pass off
> >>> that closed source stuff as if it were part of their magnanimous open
> >>> source effort. Either, A, make sure any Android phone can run the
> >>> Market and Google Sync stuff (not necessarily by even open sourcing
> >>> it) or B don't advertise that functionality as being a part of Android
> >>> (like they do now).
> >>>
> >>> A good analogy would be like this. Apple announces tomorrow that they
> >>> are Open Sourcing OSX as an operating system to smash Windows once and
> >>> for all. Because it's open source you can port it to any device you
> >>> want, or add any feature you want, don't want iTunes? You can replace
> >>> it. All apps created equal, all device drivers created equal! A month
> >>> from now they open up a repository where you can download BSD. The
> >>> only people who can actually commit to the Operating System are Apple
> >>> engineers. They start some forums for interested people to discuss it.
> >>> When people ask how they can get it to run on their PC systems they
> >>> say "Download the code and get it to work yourself.". Then people
> >>> download the code from the repo to get it to work themselves. They
> >>> then post "Hey? where is the code for Finder? Where is the code for
> >>> Carbon? Where is the code for iTunes?"
> >>>
> >>> It would be absolutely their right to keep all their code private etc.
> >>> But if they are doing that they should say "we are open sourcing the
> >>> underpinnings of OSX" etc or somehow make a clear distinction that OSX
> >>> does not include Finder, or Safari etc as opposed to videos of
> >>> employees introducing OSX by saying "One of the great features I love
> >>> about OSX is how easy it is to navigate files using Finder."
> >>>
> >>> When Android.com lists the Marketplace as a feature of Android, you'd
> >>> expect it to be a part of Android. It's a small detail, but the whole
> >>> open source relationship is very much hurt when they say one thing and
> >>> do another. The "Why don't you just submit a patch?" mentality found
> >>> all over the place here doesn't feel very inviting when it looks like
> >>> if someone did all the work to port Android to some existing handset
> >>> hardware they wouldn't even be allowed to install all the advertised
> >>> features of Android. And I very specifically say Android and not the
> >>> G1.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know if others would agree but it just seems like if the PR
> >>> speak was a bit more inline with reality then perhaps there would be
> >>> more motivation to keep Android on the open path as well as help keep
> >>> the community from getting discouraged.
> >>>
> >>> -E
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 18, 8:32 pm, Eric Mill <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> That's exactly what I'm saying, Disconnect. Android is a completely
> >>>> open source OS.  That's the abstraction. What gets shipped is a
> >>>> partly-closed source fork of Android.
> >>>>
> >>>> Android Market is not a part of the OS; it's an application written
> >>>> for it.  Under what advertising campaign do you see Google implying
> >>>> that their open source codebase includes the code for Market?  The
> >>>> only marketing Google runs is for the G1, which doesn't mention
> >>>> anything about being open source (since the G1 isn't).
> >>>>
> >>>> That's why everyone should keep their anger directed at the
> >>>> *carriers*, and not the Android project itself, which is an entirely
> >>>> free and open source OS that anybody can put on any phone.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Eric
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Disconnect <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Linux is a bad example here. (BSD is better.) The devices all come
> with a
> >>>>> closed-source fork of "android".  Try doing that with debian....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The other posters are correct, android is advertised (by google and
> others)
> >>>>> as having all of these things built in. (Easy low-hanging fruit:
> ANDROID
> >>>>> MARKET....)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And its not "a completely open source OS" because -completely- is an
> >>>>> important word.. there is an open source android OS. Unfortunately,
> that is
> >>>>> not what is being shipped -by anyone-.  What is being shipped is a
> closed
> >>>>> source OS with some example implementations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Eric Mill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Guys, this is ridiculous.  Android, like Linux, is a completely open
> >>>>>> source OS, and we are all running variants of it, with pieces of
> >>>>>> preinstalled software of varying openness and licenses. All the
> >>>>>> different RC updates are packaged for a specific client (T-Mobile),
> >>>>>> for their customer base.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Also, it gets said all the time on this list, but again: the G1
> isn't
> >>>>>> Android.  The Android codebase is a pure abstraction, whereas the G1
> >>>>>> is a specific implementation of it, and is full of compromises (like
> a
> >>>>>> closed-source Market app, and not having root access).  The
> developer
> >>>>>> phone has far fewer compromises, but even that has at least one (no
> >>>>>> access to copy-protected paid apps).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you want a phone with no compromises, start a phone manufacturing
> >>>>>> company and make one.  Thanks to Android, it's a whole lot easier to
> >>>>>> do exactly that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- Eric
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Muthu Ramadoss
> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anything not opensource and not part of android must be yanked out
> of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> android website and must be part of the particular implemetation
> like
> >>>>>>> g1, g2
> >>>>>>> etc.,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mar 18, 2009 1:30 AM, "Eric Friesen" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well this reasoning has been brought up numerous times but I think
> it
> >>>>>>> is quite lame. Visit android.com. More specifically visit
> >>>>>>> http://www.android.com/about/videos.html#category=peeks
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Here you can see an "Android" phone boasting about features that
> >>>>>>> AREN'T android. This would be like going to Microsoft's website for
> >>>>>>> WindowsXP and having it boast about the features of the paid
> version
> >>>>>>> of Microsoft Office.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If they aren't going to make these bits of code a part of Android,
> >>>>>>> they shouldn't show them off on any OHA or android.com website.
> They
> >>>>>>> should only be on T-Mobile's website for why you should buy a G1.
> And
> >>>>>>> they shouldn't be bragging about how there isn't a googlephone
> there
> >>>>>>> are many googlephones. Since it looks like the hardware doesn't
> exist
> >>>>>>> and if it did exist, wouldn't even have the full boasted software
> >>>>>>> stack.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> They want to eat their cake and have it too. "Android has all these
> >>>>>>> great features.. They just aren't actually provided"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mar 15, 11:56 am, MrSnowflake <[email protected]> wrote: >
> > Even
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> open source trees (mas...
> >>>>>>>
> >> --
> >>
> >> * Written an Android App? - List it athttp://andappstore.com/*
> >>
> >> ======
> >> Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
> >> company number  6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
> >> 152-160 City Road, London,  EC1V 2NX, UK.
> >>
> >> The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
> >> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
> >> subsidiaries.
> >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ *
>
> ======
> Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
> company number  6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
> 152-160 City Road, London,  EC1V 2NX, UK.
>
> The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
> subsidiaries.
>
>
> >
>

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