I've had 2 1.5 hour flights in a ASK21, both in California at sites
where gliders are no longer flown. Nice enough glider to fly but no
high speed performance. Just fine for floating around the airfield.
Seems an expensive solution for that limited use.
My hosts on both flights were enthusiastic about them so I had to
keep my thoughts to myself.
I have flown an IS28B2 once with Malcolm Jinks. He didn't like it on
lack of performance grounds but I thought it was OK to fly.
The problem with the commie metal gliders is that they were designed
as jobs/training engineers projects which is why the structures are
so complex and they are difficult and labour intensive to maintain.
That was a feature, not a bug, for the manufacturer.
If you own something like a K13 you are likely to be in the same
situation as with the Blanik. Not on metal fatigue but wood rot/glue
deterioration grounds. The Brits had the wing fall off a K7 a few
years ago. I don't know what the outcome of that was. K13s are also
unlikely to be impressive to anybody who you want to take up gliding,
particularly if there are modern gliders on the field.
Mike
At 08:49 PM 23/08/2010, you wrote:
A fine comparison Mike - until you fly/operate or maintain both!
The 21 is simply NICE! In the air, on the airfield and in the
workshop.The combination of a K21 and a Duo would be the ideal mix
for two two-seaters. [the K13 is still a great trainer too, old
looking as it is!]
Tom
--- On Mon, 23/8/10, Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] L-13 etc
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
<[email protected]>
Received: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 2:43 PM
At 11:07 AM 22/08/2010, you wrote:
> Spot on. There is little point in training tomorrows pilots in yesterdays
> gliders, unless all they want to do is fly yesterdays gliders. It is also
> not a good advertisement for the sport, to give someone their first
> experience of gliding in ancient equipment when modern gliders (or even
> those that just look modern) are available and often visible on the same
> airfield.
>
> In my own club the arrival of our first ASK21 simply resulted in
members and
> passengers voting with their feet. IS28 utilisation has reduced
> dramatically, and the 21 is out flying every day. Our 2nd ASK21 is coming
> on line as we speak, and one more IS28 is available for sale.
Here's an interesting comparison of the IS28B2 and the ASK21
Data taken from Martin Simon's book Sailplanes 1965 - 2000
IS28B2 ASK21
Empty mass 375Kg 360Kg
Max
mass 590 600
Wing
area 18.24m^2
17.95
Aspect
ratio 15.88 16.1
Span 17.01m
17.00m
Wing loading 32.3 kg/m^2 33.4
The ASK21 isn't a fiberglass ASK13, it is a fiberglass IS28B2 ! The
IS28B2 wing sections are the same as those on an ASW15 and the wing
is thinner at the root than the ASK21 wing. The K21 root section is
the same as the Std Cirrus.
The Tocumwal operation had an IS28B2 a few years back. They had
repainted it white all over, re-upholstered the cockpits and it
looked pretty good. The customers were pretty happy to fly in it.
Both gliders are however not representative of modern sailplanes
though the ASK21 tries to fake it. Nice glider, robust, well
engineered, relatively expensive for what it is and you get PW5 or
Schneider Boomerang performance.
The IS28 fatigue life has been investigated. I gather there is no
immediate problem. Anyone know more about this?
The Pilatus B4 has a safe life of 40,000 hours I once read. Again
not a modern glider.
There is simply no excuse for the KR 03 and from a conversation with
a glider maintainer last night it has significant problems.
I wouldn't fly in a Blanik or KR03, nor in a K7, K13, Kookaburra
etc. nowadays.
---------------
The ultralight argument is interesting. It probably isn't
co-incidence that the Ultralight guys got recognition in 1983 and
the peak GFA membership was in 1984-85. This tells me that many
people who were flying gliders merely wanted to FLY as against SOAR.
As ultralights are so much more convenient to operate I can see why
they went to ultralights.
However a pool of 10,000 trained sport aviation pilots should be
regarded as an opportunity because some of them will get bored with
simply flying around the paddock or going over to the next airfield
for coffee. The GFA will need to get over itself though in its
operating philosophy or these people will take one look and never be
seen again. The gliders on offer had better be modern, high
performance and preferably self launching too. At least self
retrieving. This wasn't the case at Renmark so we haven't run that experiment.
-------------------
Mark Newton should have gone to another flying school in the swamp.
There are few problems which if tackled in just the right way cannot
be made more expensive and difficult to solve.
-----------------
Gary Stevenson may have statist fantasies about funding but if the
people of Australia are only prepared to pay a certain amount then
that's exactly as much government work as gliding ought to be doing.
Feel free to donate money if you want more
supervision/meddling/oppression but please make sure it applies only to you.
Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
email: [email protected]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
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Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
email: [email protected]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
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