A fine comparison Mike - until you fly/operate or maintain both! The 21 is simply NICE! In the air, on the airfield and in the workshop.The combination of a K21 and a Duo would be the ideal mix for two two-seaters. [the K13 is still a great trainer too, old looking as it is!] Tom
--- On Mon, 23/8/10, Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> wrote: From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] L-13 etc To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> Received: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 2:43 PM At 11:07 AM 22/08/2010, you wrote: > Spot on. There is little point in training tomorrows pilots in yesterdays > gliders, unless all they want to do is fly yesterdays gliders. It is also > not a good advertisement for the sport, to give someone their first > experience of gliding in ancient equipment when modern gliders (or even > those that just look modern) are available and often visible on the same > airfield. > > In my own club the arrival of our first ASK21 simply resulted in members and > passengers voting with their feet. IS28 utilisation has reduced > dramatically, and the 21 is out flying every day. Our 2nd ASK21 is coming > on line as we speak, and one more IS28 is available for sale. Here's an interesting comparison of the IS28B2 and the ASK21 Data taken from Martin Simon's book Sailplanes 1965 - 2000 IS28B2 ASK21 Empty mass 375Kg 360Kg Max mass 590 600 Wing area 18.24m^2 17.95 Aspect ratio 15.88 16.1 Span 17.01m 17.00m Wing loading 32.3 kg/m^2 33.4 The ASK21 isn't a fiberglass ASK13, it is a fiberglass IS28B2 ! The IS28B2 wing sections are the same as those on an ASW15 and the wing is thinner at the root than the ASK21 wing. The K21 root section is the same as the Std Cirrus. The Tocumwal operation had an IS28B2 a few years back. They had repainted it white all over, re-upholstered the cockpits and it looked pretty good. The customers were pretty happy to fly in it. Both gliders are however not representative of modern sailplanes though the ASK21 tries to fake it. Nice glider, robust, well engineered, relatively expensive for what it is and you get PW5 or Schneider Boomerang performance. The IS28 fatigue life has been investigated. I gather there is no immediate problem. Anyone know more about this? The Pilatus B4 has a safe life of 40,000 hours I once read. Again not a modern glider. There is simply no excuse for the KR 03 and from a conversation with a glider maintainer last night it has significant problems. I wouldn't fly in a Blanik or KR03, nor in a K7, K13, Kookaburra etc. nowadays. --------------- The ultralight argument is interesting. It probably isn't co-incidence that the Ultralight guys got recognition in 1983 and the peak GFA membership was in 1984-85. This tells me that many people who were flying gliders merely wanted to FLY as against SOAR. As ultralights are so much more convenient to operate I can see why they went to ultralights. However a pool of 10,000 trained sport aviation pilots should be regarded as an opportunity because some of them will get bored with simply flying around the paddock or going over to the next airfield for coffee. The GFA will need to get over itself though in its operating philosophy or these people will take one look and never be seen again. The gliders on offer had better be modern, high performance and preferably self launching too. At least self retrieving. This wasn't the case at Renmark so we haven't run that experiment. ------------------- Mark Newton should have gone to another flying school in the swamp. There are few problems which if tackled in just the right way cannot be made more expensive and difficult to solve. ----------------- Gary Stevenson may have statist fantasies about funding but if the people of Australia are only prepared to pay a certain amount then that's exactly as much government work as gliding ought to be doing. Feel free to donate money if you want more supervision/meddling/oppression but please make sure it applies only to you. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: [email protected] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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