Hi Derek I was going to stay out of further discussions on the matter but now it seems that some additional information in relation to the motorised version of the ASK 21 and the engine is in order.
A) Several European gliding clubs are training their students on the ASK 21 Mi by self launching about 10 to 12 times on a single day. So far they have not encountered any problems. So far five self launching ASK 21 Mi have been purchased by customers in Australia. I make no secret of the fact that the experience with the first few has not always reflected the situation in Europe. On the positive side, it was all fixed under warrantee. B) There is no service interval on the engine. After 150 hours only an EXTERNAL inspection is required. Two stroke engines usually have a requirement for an engine overhaul after a certain number of hours but this does not apply to the rotary engine used in all Schleicher self launching gliders. C) In Europe they are sending pilots solo in an ASK 21 Mi and I can't see any reason why this should not be possible in Australia. After all, many are advocating to conduct basic training in gliders by far more demanding than an ASK 21 Mi and costing about the same amount of money. D) It depends entirely on the club in question and the fleet of gliders they operate. Mike is right, the ASK 21 can't match the high speed performance of the Duo Discus or the GD 1000 but high speed performance is usually low on the list of priorities for a trainer. Our top priority should be to get newcomers to solo status quickly and cost efficiently. Only then can we expect to turn the declining fortunes of the gliding movement (and our clubs) around. But that is only my opinion. Kind regards to all Bernard Eckey -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock Sent: Tuesday, 24 August 2010 11:02 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] L-13 etc No arguments on that point Mike: Sydney Gliding, who are a very small operation who also fly from Camden operate a motor glider, and have accumulated sufficient funds over the last few years to purchase a K21Mi, so they avoid the issues you mention, however some other questions about the K21Mi operation come to mind - will the engine survive the rigours of multiple launches in a day? - what is the servicing interval of the engine, and can it be done in Australia? - will they be willing to send someone solo in an aircraft worth a quarter of a million dollars? - what does the newly solo'ed pilot fly with no other gliders to progress to? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 23 August 2010 6:04 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] L-13 etc At 04:29 PM 23/08/2010, you wrote: >Not to mention waiting months for the parts from the Eastern European >factories... > >We have both a Dg1000 and a K21. We bought the DG1000 first. >Interestingly enough the K21 is the most popular, with good reason. >Which ab-initio pilot would be concerned with the wing section, or that >one was designed 25 years ago? To the untrained eye, they are viewed as >sleek and modern compared to the K13. > > >- The K21 will be fine if you are trying to do *flying* training in gliders. If you are about training and inspiring *soaring* pilots who can already fly because they were trained in something with an engine the ASK21 isn't so good. Uninspiring performance. Not impressive. There's nothing wrong with gliders for teaching people to fly IN THE AIR. It is on the ground that they fail badly. The logistics and personnel required to generate another sortie is huge by comparison to power. As one of the difficult things in flying is learning to land, which is only done by repetitive practice, using something that can generate 10 or so landings in an hour clock time with only the student and instructor instead of a tow pilot, wingtip runners etc would seem to make sense. If the pilot then decides he'd rather fly ultralights etc, he probably wasn't going to stay flying gliders for Agree long anyway. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: [email protected] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
