Thank you Konrad. I would like to take the liberty of converting what you just wrote into Australian...
It is all a crock of shit! I apologise to all or any I have offended. I'll make sure I give myself ten strokes of the water proof lash I keep in the shower for exactly these sorts of circumstances. Michael > On 25 Aug 2014, at 5:17 pm, "Konrad Maierhofer" > <[email protected]> wrote: > > This is my contribution to more confusion about EASA and ICAO licenses (don't > read if you are after information about a competition license): > > I started with aviation with Ultra Lights in Germany, learned soaring in > Australia tried to convert my (at that time) non-existing Australian license > to a German Gliding license. No way! I wound up to get a new license in > Europe. I opted to get my gliding license in Austria as this allowed me to do > my training in my own German registered glider which was by far cheaper than > to do it in Germany. Germany and also Austria requires endorsements for > different launch methods (winch, aerotow, self launch and sustainers - not > including TMGs=touring motor gliders like a Motorfalke or Super Dimona). In > order to fly a tug in Australia I also started to get a PPL(A) (at that time > ICAO PPL(A) JAR-FCL) which I thought would enable me to fly an Australian GA > registered tug - wrong. > > ICAO is not the same as EASA. EASA will replace or supersede the national > European rules. EASA is not completely in place in whole Europe. Like in my > case my German ICAO PPL(A) JAR-FCL license was already converted to an EASA > PPL(A) JAR-FCL. > My Austrian ICAO-license will not be converted to an EASA license in the next > three years as Austria decided to postpone the transition to a later date. > But in the next (I think) three years all European countries will convert all > local licenses into European licenses. Some will be upgraded to something > better some will have less rights. For gliding there will be two licenses > available LAPL and SPL. LAPL and SPL have different requirements for the > aviation medical. LAPL has less equirements but is only valid in Europe. SPL > needs a Class II Medical and is again a proper ICAO license that is valid > world wide in ICAO countries. > > If the option of getting a British license is still available then this might > be the best way to get an ICAO license sooner or later. Why not taking > advantage or the Common Wealth and the courtesy of BGA! Then when time is > ready you will get the license converted to a SPL. Downside is that you will > need a Class II Medical when you get to Europe. If your health is OK then > this shouldn't be a problem but will cost several hundred Euros. Depending on > your age it needs to be renewed every two years. This might make only sense > if you intend to fly in Europe and hire a foreign registered aircraft. > Sometimes with hiring a glider in Europe it is not only a question of getting > permission of the CASA equivalent it is also get a valid insurance for the > pilot. > > To comment on Michael: I think there is no good and better-All is too > confusing and everyone can do better. GFA & CASA for sure is ways easier to > deal with than a LBA and it is not simply only LBA now we will get EASA > (Europe) in the top then comes LBA (Gemany-federal), Luftamt for each state > and Luftsport Verband for competitions and sports aviation. This hierarchy > reflects only Germany and every European country has local rules. Enough for > today - I'm getting confused too. > > Konrad > > Von: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Michael > Scutter > Gesendet: Montag, 25. August 2014 07:20 > An: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Betreff: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes > > Bak in the good days (2011), Matthew got a British licence based on his "c" > certificate and a recent scan of his log book showing he had done more than 5 > hours flying in a year. > > The CEO of the BGA, also sent a copy of a letter from the BAA (British > equivalent of CASA). It said the BGA was higher than required to an ICO > licence. > > I sent the letter to the LBA (the German equivalent of CASA) along with a > copy of his BGA licence. > > LBA responded " you can fly in Germany. The person registering Matt for the > comp, looked at the letter from the LBA and said no problems. If they say you > can, then you can. > > The system we have not, surely could be better, like this example. > > Michael get > >> On 25 Aug 2014, at 1:37 pm, Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Michael, >> >> You are of course correct. >> >> It is ridiculous. Not only that, I suspect ICAO never envisaged a >> qualification for recognition by another country that wasn't to be >> recognised in the holder's home country. >> >> If I was a bureaucrat working for EASA or the FAA licencing departments I >> sure wouldn't recognise one of those. I'd reckon it was "intent to deceive". >> >> Come to think of it, from a conversation I had a long time ago with an FAA >> general aviation office employee they regard recognition of foreign >> qualifications as being contingent on said qualification allowing you to fly >> legally in your home country. >> >> Oops. >> >> Mike >> >> At 12:47 PM 25/08/2014, you wrote: >>> For what it's worth, a credential that can't be used in Australia reflects >>> badly on Australian pilots. >>> >>> There is this extra step (paper work), that Australia does not recognise, >>> but expects other countries to. It's not funny, it's ridiculous. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 7:04 am, "Christopher McDonnell" >>>> <[email protected] > wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, what will be needed re paperwork to fly a glider out from under the >>>> umbrella in the rain? <wlEmoticon-smile[1].png> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Christopher Thorpe >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:13 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no >>>> clothes >>>> >>>> Ron >>>> >>>> Refer to CASR 61 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014C00046: >>>> >>>> 61.1510 Privileges of glider pilot licences >>>> 61.1520 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot >>>> licences—recennt experience >>>> 61.1525 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot >>>> licences—flighht review >>>> 61.1530 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot >>>> licences—mediccal certificates >>>> 61.1535 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot >>>> licences—carriiage of documents >>>> >>>> For what it’s worth, a CASA GPL only exists to assist GFA members >>>> wanting to have their Australian qualifications recognised overseas. It >>>> will not allow a person to fly gliders in Australia outside the umbrella >>>> of the GFA. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> <image001.png>Christopher Thorpe >>>> Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 >>>> 433 264 489) >>>> M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: [email protected] | w: www.g >>>> lidingaustralia.org >>>> >>>> au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] [ >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders >>>> Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:59 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no >>>> clothes >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> In the references listed I can not find the privileges and >>>> responsibilities of the CASA GPL?? >>>> ron >>>> >>>> On 24 August 2014 18:51, Christopher Thorpe <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Ron >>>> >>>> >>>> The GFA GPC is compliant in that it meets the standards specified in >>>> Annex 1 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. The >>>> regulatory authority is in Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998, >>>> subparagraphs 61.1540 (2)(a),(b),& (c). >>>> >>>> >>>> CASA has produced a guidance booklet at: >>>> http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/part61booklet.pdf >>>> >>>> >>>> For further guidance, go to: >>>> http://www.casa.gov.au/licensingregs >>>> >>>> >>>> CASA has informed me that an applicant for a GPL will need to present >>>> their GPC and identification documents, and then meet the following >>>> requirements: >>>> • CASA Medical >>>> • FROL; >>>> • Security Check; and >>>> • English Language Proficiency Assessment; >>>> >>>> >>>> Glider pilots already holding a CASA Licence will generally only need to >>>> evidence holding a GPC and a current CASA medical. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> <image001.png>Christopher Thorpe >>>> Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 >>>> 433 264 489) >>>> M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: [email protected] | w: www.g >>>> lidingaustralia.org >>>> >>>> >>>> au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] [ >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders >>>> Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:00 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no >>>> clothes >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Chris, >>>> >>>> >>>> Could you please explain the legislative background which makes the GPC >>>> right now as is, ICAO compliant? >>>> >>>> >>>> However, on September 2, I wish to convert my GPC into a CASA Glider Pilot >>>> License, can you please tell me how to do this? >>>> >>>> >>>> Ron Sanders >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24 August 2014 17:21, Christopher Thorpe <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> To dispel some of the misinformation written about the GPC: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. The GFA GPC is ICAO compliant. >>>> >>>> 2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent >>>> Operator status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5). >>>> >>>> 3. Foreign pilots can readily convert an overseas issued ICAO >>>> compliant licence to the GPC (refer the GFA web site for details). >>>> >>>> 4. This year, Mal Read (CASA) and I have assisted several Australian >>>> pilots convert their GPC to an overseas ICAO licence. Granted this was >>>> not necessarily an easy thing to do given the current EASA regulatory >>>> environment. >>>> >>>> 5. When CASR Part 61 comes into force on 1 September 2014, >>>> Australian pilots wishing to fly overseas can use their GPC to obtain a >>>> CASA Glider Pilot Licence to overcome past difficulties with overseas >>>> recognition. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> <image001.png>Christopher Thorpe >>>> Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 >>>> 433 264 489) >>>> M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: [email protected] | w: www.g >>>> lidingaustralia.org >>>> >>>> >>>> au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] [ >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ulrich >>>> Stauss >>>> Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:32 AM >>>> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no >>>> clothes >>>> >>>> >>>> Picking up from Michael Scutter: >>>> >>>> >>>> Will overseas pilots holding an ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license and >>>> an FAI Sporting license still require a GPC to fly in Australian >>>> competitions? >>>> Perhaps more importantly, do the insurances recognise both the FAI >>>> Sporting license and the GPC for their purposes? >>>> >>>> >>>> Or are there provisions in place to recognise the FAI Sporting license as >>>> equivalent/superior? >>>> If so does this also apply to an Australian pilot holding an FAI Sporting >>>> license but not a GPC? (What if this pilot also holds an overseas ICAO >>>> compliant (glider) pilots license?) >>>> >>>> >>>> Will the points of a competitor in an Australian National Championship who >>>> only holds a GPC but no FAI Sporting license be recognised for the FAI/IGC >>>> Pilot Rankings? >>>> >>>> >>>> To my knowledge the GPC is not ICAO compliant nor recognised anywhere >>>> overseas. I guess that will have to wait until the CASA GPL finally gets >>>> off the ground. The way I read the MOSP, the GPC in practice merely means >>>> that the holder has a C certificate and may have been trained according to >>>> the ‘new’ rearranged syllabus and to Level 1 independent operator >>>> standard (but does not necessarily hold the L1 IO rating!). >>>> >>>> >>>> In the meantime our pilots who want to compete overseas are still on their >>>> own in the battle with foreign bureaucracies to obtain an ICAO compliant >>>> license from wherever this is easier or quicker in their circumstances >>>> (UK, US, Czech Republic…) on the basis of the C certificate – googood luck >>>> to anyone attempting that based on a GPC. >>>> >>>> >>>> Wasn’t that the primary issue that the GPC was supposed to fix? >>>> >>>> >>>> The emperor has no clothes! >>>> >>>> >>>> Ulrich >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] [ >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pam >>>> Sent: Friday, 22 August 2014 10:35 >>>> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses >>>> >>>> >>>> Records: >>>> You must have an FAI Sporting Licence before you make a record attempt. >>>> One pilot this year had a record claim rejected because he had no Sporting >>>> Licence. You pay $10 and renew every 2 years. >>>> A pilot can only hold one Sporting Licence, so for example if you already >>>> hold one issued by Australia, you fly records and International >>>> Competitions as a representative of Australia. You can’t compete in the >>>> French Team, if you hold an FAI Sporting Licence issued by Australia. In >>>> other words, the FAI Sporting Licence is dependent on your Nationality or >>>> Residence. >>>> Competitions: >>>> The use of the word ‘competition licence’ is confusing, when it refers >>>> to the FAI Sporting Licence. It was a requirement of the insurance company >>>> providing liability insurance to competition organisers, as evidence of >>>> pilots’ competence, and perhaps in everyday speech it sounds simpler to >>>> say ‘competition licence’. It appears now that the insurer is happy to >>>> accept a GPC for competitions in Australia. >>>> Pam >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] [ >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter >>>> Champness >>>> Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2014 7:33 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses >>>> >>>> >>>> I agree with the OPs Panel. The International Competition Licence was >>>> never necessary and should not have been adopted for domestic competition. >>>> The Glider Pilot Certificate has some merit and I personally >>>> am very happy to adopt that for our competitions. It is a lot more >>>> comprehensive than the old Silver badge. >>>> >>>> >>>> What happens if you fly a potential record flight and you don't have an >>>> International Competition Licence. Can you apply for it retrospectively? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Adam Woolley <[email protected] > >>>> wrote: >>>> A timely question Don, >>>> >>>> I think the comp license has now been replaced by a GPC. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> WPP >>>> >>>> >>>> > On 21 Aug 2014, at 18:28, Don Woodward <[email protected] > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > G'day all, Jen and I have just spent the last hour searching the web for >>>> > the address to send your competition license to to get it renewed but >>>> > we've failed. Can someone please assist and remind me of the postal >>>> > address? >>>> > >>>> > Regards >>>> > Don Woodward >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >> instrumentation since 1978 >> www.borgeltinstruments.com >> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > E-Mail ist virenfrei. > Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de > Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virendatenbank: 4007/8092 - Ausgabedatum: 24.08.2014 > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
