“5. is great to know. I hope the GPL really gets off the ground this time and
is not postponed last minute again like last time.”
Me too Ulrich. It will be great to not be a ‘last’ world country.
From: Ulrich Stauss
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:09 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Hi Chris,
Many thanks for the quick reply. However, I am not sure where in my post I was
spreading misinformation but please correct me where I am wrong.
With regard to your statement
1. The GFA GPC is ICAO compliant.
please provide evidence as due diligence in your position would require. The
references given in reply to Ron Sanders’ post do not even mention ICAO
compliance. E.g. the CASA booklet only says ”… This license may be recognised
by foreign aviation authorities for Australian pilots wishing to compete in
gliding competitions overseas.” And let me emphasis the word “MAY”.
You also state
2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent Operator
status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5).
The referenced paragraph says:
“… The GPC recognises that the pilot has been trained and tested to the full
extent of the GPC training syllabus and is therefore entitled to be approved to
operate a glider within the privileges and limitations of the syllabus items as
notified by pilot logbook endorsements.”
So whilst the GPC tells me that the pilot has been trained to L1 IO standard,
the privileges and limitations depend on the log book endorsements (not the
GPC). I could imagine that for some clubs and CFIs the legal liabilities
arising from MOSP 2, paragraph 13.1.2
(“The Club of a person exercising Level 1 Independent Operator privileges is
responsible for that person’s operations, even when the person is operating
independently”) may be considered too high a risk exposure in this day and age
so that they may wish to restrict the privileges by such logbook endorsements.
So I don’t see how you can (more or less publicly) make the above assertion.
3. does not directly answer my question but I take this to mean that overseas
pilots will need to obtain a GPC to compete in Australia(?).
5. is great to know. I hope the GPL really gets off the ground this time and is
not postponed last minute again like last time.
Regards,
Ulrich
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher
Thorpe
Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 18:52
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
To dispel some of the misinformation written about the GPC:
1. The GFA GPC is ICAO compliant.
2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent Operator
status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5).
3. Foreign pilots can readily convert an overseas issued ICAO compliant
licence to the GPC (refer the GFA web site for details).
4. This year, Mal Read (CASA) and I have assisted several Australian
pilots convert their GPC to an overseas ICAO licence. Granted this was not
necessarily an easy thing to do given the current EASA regulatory environment.
5. When CASR Part 61 comes into force on 1 September 2014, Australian
pilots wishing to fly overseas can use their GPC to obtain a CASA Glider Pilot
Licence to overcome past difficulties with overseas recognition.
Regards
Christopher Thorpe
Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264
489)
M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: [email protected] | w: www.glidingaustralia.org
au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ulrich Stauss
Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:32 AM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Picking up from Michael Scutter:
Will overseas pilots holding an ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license and an
FAI Sporting license still require a GPC to fly in Australian competitions?
Perhaps more importantly, do the insurances recognise both the FAI Sporting
license and the GPC for their purposes?
Or are there provisions in place to recognise the FAI Sporting license as
equivalent/superior?
If so does this also apply to an Australian pilot holding an FAI Sporting
license but not a GPC? (What if this pilot also holds an overseas ICAO
compliant (glider) pilots license?)
Will the points of a competitor in an Australian National Championship who only
holds a GPC but no FAI Sporting license be recognised for the FAI/IGC Pilot
Rankings?
To my knowledge the GPC is not ICAO compliant nor recognised anywhere overseas.
I guess that will have to wait until the CASA GPL finally gets off the ground.
The way I read the MOSP, the GPC in practice merely means that the holder has a
C certificate and may have been trained according to the ‘new’ rearranged
syllabus and to Level 1 independent operator standard (but does not necessarily
hold the L1 IO rating!).
In the meantime our pilots who want to compete overseas are still on their own
in the battle with foreign bureaucracies to obtain an ICAO compliant license
from wherever this is easier or quicker in their circumstances (UK, US, Czech
Republic…) on the basis of the C certificate – good luck to anyone attempting
that based on a GPC.
Wasn’t that the primary issue that the GPC was supposed to fix?
The emperor has no clothes!
Ulrich
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pam
Sent: Friday, 22 August 2014 10:35
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses
Records:
You must have an FAI Sporting Licence before you make a record attempt. One
pilot this year had a record claim rejected because he had no Sporting Licence.
You pay $10 and renew every 2 years.
A pilot can only hold one Sporting Licence, so for example if you already hold
one issued by Australia, you fly records and International Competitions as a
representative of Australia. You can’t compete in the French Team, if you hold
an FAI Sporting Licence issued by Australia. In other words, the FAI Sporting
Licence is dependent on your Nationality or Residence.
Competitions:
The use of the word ‘competition licence’ is confusing, when it refers to the
FAI Sporting Licence. It was a requirement of the insurance company providing
liability insurance to competition organisers, as evidence of pilots’
competence, and perhaps in everyday speech it sounds simpler to say
‘competition licence’. It appears now that the insurer is happy to accept a GPC
for competitions in Australia.
Pam
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter Champness
Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2014 7:33 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses
I agree with the OPs Panel. The International Competition Licence was never
necessary and should not have been adopted for domestic competition. The
Glider Pilot Certificate has some merit and I personally am very happy to adopt
that for our competitions. It is a lot more comprehensive than the old Silver
badge.
What happens if you fly a potential record flight and you don't have an
International Competition Licence. Can you apply for it retrospectively?
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Adam Woolley <[email protected]> wrote:
A timely question Don,
I think the comp license has now been replaced by a GPC.
Cheers,
WPP
> On 21 Aug 2014, at 18:28, Don Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> G'day all, Jen and I have just spent the last hour searching the web for
the address to send your competition license to to get it renewed but we've
failed. Can someone please assist and remind me of the postal address?
>
> Regards
> Don Woodward
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