Yes this thread could go on forever, unfortunately I am not a Hebrew scholar , but have gained a great deal by being a subscriber to your list.
May I offer this , if you are a believer in Jesus and lean to Hebrew then you seem to feel a need to keep more to OT and find it a bit hard to let go where as those of us who base our faith on tat how the NT reflects the OT, then how Gods Hebrew name was translated or not translated is irelevant, for to us this name יְהוָ . remains as יְהוָ .or is now addressed as Lord. And as believers now we confess Jesus is Lord. The name of Jesus is now the name of our Messiah. Our proof is not in translation but in statements like, Col 3:17 do every thing in word or deed in the name of Jesus . That leaves no other name needed, all our worship must be directed at the name of Jesus. Acts 4:12 Therefore there is no other name by which men may be saved. Phil 2:11 Jesus has a name above all names. Same again, not a translation problem there , just a simply statement. We need no other name than Jesus , thats how it was for the years from the Septuagint till Jerome , and till a resurgence in Hebrew due to the Masoretic study in about the 6th century . Many thanks to all subscribers who show such patience .. doug belot From: K Randolph Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:45 AM To: Dave Washburn Cc: [email protected] Subject: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship Dave: Thanks for the explanation. It still doesn’t make sense. On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dave Washburn <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');> wrote: On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, K Randolph <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');> wrote: Ken: On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Ken Penner <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');> wrote: Do the following help? Joüon §59g: "In the light of Ugr. tštḥwy “she prostrates herself,” what used to be considered hitpa̧ʿlẹl, represented almost entirely by the frequent הִשְׁתַּחֲוָה to worship, to prostrate oneself, is most likely a Hištafʿel of √ חוי." From where does he get this? What you're seeing, both there and in the Jouon quote, is a grammarian trying desperately to figure out what's going on with this unique word. It used to be taught that it was a hitpa`el of $XH with metathesis of the shin and the tau, and no clue why the waw. But as Ken already mentioned, Ugaritic has shown us that the root is actually XWH and the stem is a hi$tap`el. Once upon a time we had a grid of stems with a hole in the middle: Basic Emphatic Causative Active qal pi`el hip`il Passive nip`al pu`al hop`al Reflexive nip`al ? hitpa`el Thanks to Ugaritic, we now know what goes where the question mark is. And yes, it only survives in this one word in that language, too. That's an accident of preservation,… So the evidence is that because the Ugaritic grammar has this pattern, therefore it must be found in Biblical Hebrew as well? Why should I buy that argument? There’s a lot in that presentation that’s questionable, at least. That pattern does not fit what I’ve observed in Hebrew. It may fit Ugaritic, but not Hebrew. … but I don't really think anybody can deny that the word exists. No question about the existence of the word, it’s one of the more common words used in Tanakh. The question here is the grammar involved, and the root. I think part of the problem is the insistance that Hebrew have a triliteral root system. But that’s not the case. There are several biliteral roots (into which lexicographers insert “materes lectionis” so they can list them as triliteral) and a few quadriliterals, and this verb acts like a well-behaved quadriliteral with a heh final. -- Dave Washburn Check out my Internet show: http://www.irvingszoo.com Now available: a novel about King Josiah! Karl W. Randolph. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ b-hebrew mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
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