The Baha'i Studies Listserv On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Susan Maneck <[email protected]> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Susan said that Muawiyyah wasn't a pious man and questioned the >> sincerity of his conversion and therefore his status as a companion. >> Those certainly aren't Sunni positions.
> Well, here is what a Sunni ahadith states: I would point out that in the history of Sunni-Shia polemics it is actually very common for Shias to argue from Sunni sources. Rhetorically it can come off as a neat trick except the difference between Sunnis and Shias doesn't lie in different factual claims as much as in how those claims are interpreted and understood. For example Ghadeer Khum is in the Sunni hadith collections too and Sunnis largely agree with Shias on the outward facts, but with a very different understanding. In terms of the current discussion, Sunnis of course agree that Muawiyya and Ali fought one another. And Sunnis actually agree that Ali was correct and Muawiyya was wrong in fighting him. Nevertheless, there is still a refusal to totally demonize Muawiyya and instead view him as sincerely trying to do what he felt was the right thing. In any case, if we are trying to determine the Sunni position on a matter you should actually quote positions from Sunni scholars not just cherry pick sunni hadith but ignore what Sunni ulema actually believe. for example in one link I already included in this thread (did you read it?) http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e81.html it says of Ahmad ibn Hanbal (who transmitted many of the hadith you quote ) Allah have mercy on Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, he abhorred speaking ill even of Yazid ibn Mu`awiya because the latter lived in one of the centuries praised by our Holy Prophet, upon him blessings and peace. How do you think Imam Ahmad acted when it came to the Sahaba al-Kiram? Where do you suppose he stood from the magnificent hadith: "When my Companions are mentioned, hold back [from ill speech]"? [Hasan per al-`Iraqi and al-Suyuti.] Do you suppose Rasulullah meant only the Companions we pick and choose? Or rather ALL the Companions Allah Subhan wa-Ta`ala picked and chose for him without exception? and the page goes on to quote from a basic Sunni creed attributed to Abu Hanifa: We shall be judged for this. It is not in our hand to love this Companion more than that Companion. However, it is in our hand to hold back from ill speech toward any of the Companions and you and I shall be judged over the latter obligation. Hence Imam Abu Hanifa made it part of the obligatory Muslim Creed in al-Fiqh al-Akbar: "We [Muslims] do not mention any of his Companions except with goodness!" Do you suppose he meant "whenever it suits us or is easy to do"? And again from the SunniPath website is an article with a fairly typical Sunni description of the past conflicts: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4072&CATE=1 In the name of Allah, Most Merciful and Compassionate The position of our Imams of the Ash`ari school of Sunni beliefs is that Sayyiduna Mu`awiya (Allah be pleased with him) is from the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). All the Companions of high rank in the Shariah, because of the honor of having met our Noble Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace), and the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) died pleased with them all. It is true that the ranks of the Companions differ in virtue, depending on who entered Islam earlier and who served the religion with their person and wealth more. [See: Taftazani, Sharh al-Aqa�id al-Nasafiyya and its commentaries; Laqani, Jawharat al-Tawhid, and its commentaries by Bajuri, Sawi, Tattan, and others] The position of Sunni Islam is that the differences and disputes that took place between the Companions during their period of disagreement do not allow us to censure them nor to speak ill of them. This applies to both Sayyiduna Ali and Sayyiduna Mu`awiya (Allah be pleased with them both), and those who followed either of them. Even worse is to deem any of them to be misguided or (God forbid) a disbeliever�except those whose apostasy was legally established. What is entailed by having good opinion of the Noble Companions of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) is that if they sinned they hastened to repentance; and that through the blessing of their having been with the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) they were honoured by death on Islam and in the best of states. There is scholarly consensus, as is the position of Sunni Islam, that Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) was correct in the differences that existed between him and Sayyiduna Mu`awiya (Allah be pleased with him), and that these differences did not occur due to selfish desires or caprice but rather through each exercising their independent judgment (ijtihad). Sayyiduna Mu`awiya (Allah be pleased with him) erred, and thus has the reward of his ijtihad, and he was not sinful for his error. [end quote] : > The Messenger of Allah said: "Whoever curses Ali, he has, in fact, > cursed me, and whoever has cursed me, he has cursed Allah, and > whoever has cursed Allah, then Allah will throw him into he > Hell-fire." > : Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p33 I agree with you that Sunni Muslims are supposed to have a great love for Ali (ra) and Ahl-al-Bayt. And that cursing Ali (or any other companion) is a serious sin. I think that an interesting (and in its own way beautiful) hadith about the status of the companions generally is the following: [...] a man was punished by the Prophet because of wine-drinking. One day when he was brought to him and he gave orders and had him beaten, one of those present said: "O Allah, curse him. How often he is brought!" The Prophet said: "Do not curse him. I swear by Allah that I know he loves Allah and His Messenger ." (Al-Bukhari) On the one hand this companion is clearly and repeatedly commiting an action which is well known to be a sin in Islam. But in the other hand, in spite of that sin, he still had such a loving relationship to the prophet (saaws) that Muhammad himself tells the other companions not to curse him. There are somewhat similar stories about companions who were adulterers but were also commended for the repentance. __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-534330-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
