The Baha'i Studies Listserv I think this conversation is interesting. I'm not Sunni or Shi'a, but I think both narratives have merit.
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > I would point out that in the history of Sunni-Shia polemics it is > > actually very common for Shias to argue from Sunni sources. > > Rhetorically it can come off as a neat trick > > Dear Gilberto, > > Is it a 'trick' or merely reflective of the fact that the evidence is > on their side? > > For > > example Ghadeer Khum is in the Sunni hadith collections too and Sunnis > > largely agree with Shias on the outward facts, but with a very > > different understanding. In terms of the current discussion, > > In other words, they agree with the account which clearly demonstrates > that Muhammad appointed Ali as His successor. > > > In any case, if we are trying to determine the Sunni position on a > > matter you should actually quote positions from Sunni scholars not > > just cherry pick sunni hadith but ignore what Sunni ulema actually > > believe. > > I'm interested in the evidence not the way in which Sunnis attempt to > dismiss it. > > > Allah have mercy on Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, he abhorred speaking ill > > even of Yazid ibn Mu`awiya because the latter lived in one of the > > centuries praised by our Holy Prophet, > > For the benefit of those Baha'is who are less familiar with Islam, let > me point out that Ibn Hanbal was the founder of the most conservative > school of Sunni Islam, the one the Wahhabis adhere to. > > Now let's deconstruct his statement. He is not going to speak ill > *even* of Yazid (which implies there is a good deal to speak evil of) > because he is the son of Mu'awiya. And what does Mu'awiya have in his > favor? Nothing, except for the fact he lived at the same time as the > Prophet. This apparently means he doesn't have to live up to the same > standards as the rest of us. > Hence Imam Abu Hanifa made it > > part of the obligatory Muslim Creed in al-Fiqh al-Akbar: "We [Muslims] > > do not mention any of his Companions except with goodness!" Do you > > suppose he meant "whenever it suits us or is easy to do"? > > Okay, thank you very much for this evidence that Sunni Muslims aren't > allowed to do any real historical analysis of this period of their > history. > > > What is entailed by having good opinion of the Noble Companions of the > > Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) is that if > > they sinned they hastened to repentance; > > Notwithstanding all the evidence to the contrary. > > > There is scholarly consensus, > > So beware folks, Sunni scholars cannot be relied upon when it come so > their early history because they are theologically committed to > ignoring all the negatives. > > Do you even realize the implications of what you are saying? > > warmest, Susan > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:matthewhaa...@gmail.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto: > leave-534370-953325.e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-534398-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
