The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I would point out that in the history of Sunni-Shia polemics it is > actually very common for Shias to argue from Sunni sources. > Rhetorically it can come off as a neat trick
Dear Gilberto, Is it a 'trick' or merely reflective of the fact that the evidence is on their side? For > example Ghadeer Khum is in the Sunni hadith collections too and Sunnis > largely agree with Shias on the outward facts, but with a very > different understanding. In terms of the current discussion, In other words, they agree with the account which clearly demonstrates that Muhammad appointed Ali as His successor. > In any case, if we are trying to determine the Sunni position on a > matter you should actually quote positions from Sunni scholars not > just cherry pick sunni hadith but ignore what Sunni ulema actually > believe. I'm interested in the evidence not the way in which Sunnis attempt to dismiss it. > Allah have mercy on Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, he abhorred speaking ill > even of Yazid ibn Mu`awiya because the latter lived in one of the > centuries praised by our Holy Prophet, For the benefit of those Baha'is who are less familiar with Islam, let me point out that Ibn Hanbal was the founder of the most conservative school of Sunni Islam, the one the Wahhabis adhere to. Now let's deconstruct his statement. He is not going to speak ill *even* of Yazid (which implies there is a good deal to speak evil of) because he is the son of Mu'awiya. And what does Mu'awiya have in his favor? Nothing, except for the fact he lived at the same time as the Prophet. This apparently means he doesn't have to live up to the same standards as the rest of us. Hence Imam Abu Hanifa made it > part of the obligatory Muslim Creed in al-Fiqh al-Akbar: "We [Muslims] > do not mention any of his Companions except with goodness!" Do you > suppose he meant "whenever it suits us or is easy to do"? Okay, thank you very much for this evidence that Sunni Muslims aren't allowed to do any real historical analysis of this period of their history. > What is entailed by having good opinion of the Noble Companions of the > Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) is that if > they sinned they hastened to repentance; Notwithstanding all the evidence to the contrary. > There is scholarly consensus, So beware folks, Sunni scholars cannot be relied upon when it come so their early history because they are theologically committed to ignoring all the negatives. Do you even realize the implications of what you are saying? warmest, Susan __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-534370-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
