The Baha'i Studies Listserv Yes, I am making a distinction between the Shi'a and Baha'i view, because they are slightly different. The Baha'i perspective has its roots in the Shi'a view, but it departs in some important ways from it. For example, when Quratulayn-Tahirih refused to mourn the martyrdom of Hussein, she did so under the pretense that the 12th Imam/Qa'im/Mahdi was here and alive. Thus, it was a time for celebration rather than mourning what is past.
I do realize that most Sunnis agree with 'Ali and the Family of the Prophet over Mu'awiyya and Yazid. There are a few exceptions, such as Bilal Phillips who depicts Mu'awiyya as a pious man who sincerely followed his conscience. I personally have a hard time believing that. I don't understand how a person could be so far removed from the clear utterances and actions of the Prophet toward his family, and do so many things to harm them, and still have good intentions while doing so. Having a difficult time understanding why the Prophet would choose a successor among his own family instead of the usual egalitarian method of resorting to a council of elders, is one thing. But it's something else entirely to actively engage in acts of rebellion against the Prophet's family, and furthermore justify it in the name of Monotheism. As if Monotheism requires that you treat the family of one's own Prophet with contempt. I don't understand why I should have a sin-covering eye of Mu'awiyya when he made it mandatory to curse 'Ali in all Mosques of his domain, for all five prayers. He didn't seem to have a sin-covering eye of 'Ali, and 'Ali didn't do anything wrong. On the other hand, 'Ali showed infinite patience and reserve toward his foe who proved to view Islam in political rather than religious terms. It might sound great for unity's sake to let bygones be bygones, but I think it is dangerous to assume that anyone who did anything bad still had good intentions in their heart. This notion that simply being a companion of the Prophet absolves you of all wrong doing, seems rather convenient to me, for its very construct seems to imply that there is a lot of wrong doing that one could talk about. As Susan already mentioned, Mu'awiyya literally converted to Islam at the last second. It is possible that he had some quick epiphany, but from a historical perspective it certainly looks like a pragmatic move on his part to escape execution, for Islam was tolerant in terms of the times by allowing enemies to escape death through conversion, something not done by other tribes with war captives. I would never think that Sunnis are pro-killing Hussein. I agree that is crazy. I am just uncomfortable with this notion that I have to assume everyone who did something bad, had good intentions in their heart. How can a person "righteously" hate 'Ali, Hasan, and Hussein? My mind just can not grasp the concept. Perhaps that is the "Shi'a" in me. On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Gilberto Simpson < [email protected]> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Matt Haase <[email protected]> > wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > > > I think Sunni and Shi'a narratives both have merit, but fall short in > > totality. > > Are you making some distinction between the Shia view and the Bahai view? > > For example, Shi'as are great at keeping a memory alive and of > > inspiring people with sacred history. But from a historical perspective, > the > > world just doesn't work in "good guys/bad guys" with clearly defined > lines > > of good and evil. The world is more complicated than that. I side with > 'Ali, > > Hasan and Husayn over Mu'awiyya and Yazid any day. > > I hope you realize that for Sunnis, Muawiyya and Yazid were wrong?! > > > My criticism of the Sunni narrative is that does seem to whitewash the > evil > > that men did, and to simply ask those who were brutally damaged to just > > "forgive and forget." It's easy to say that when one is on top, which > Sunnis > > have historically been. > > What you are saying doesn't ring true at all with me. If you are > talking about the original events, Ali vs. Muawyyia, Yazid vs. > Hussain, then Sunnis and Shias actually AGREE about who was right and > who was wrong. It's not as if ANYBODY is saying killing Hussein was > some wonderful thing. That's just crazy. > > And "forgive and forget" seems totally out of place. Of course, > remember history. Don't forget. Nobody is saying otherwise. But the > people who did the deeds and the people who suffered from them aren't > around anymore so forgiveness is moot. > > Of course, that's all seperate from modern social conflicts between > Sunnis and Shias but that's not really a theological problem. The > theological differences are just a "convenient" marker of social > difference like the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in > Northern Ireland. > > > It reminds me of some White people who don't > > understand why some minorities want to strongly identify with their > > heritage. "I'm white, but you don't see me walking around with a > Norwegian > > flag on my t-shirt, and celebrating Norwegian festivals in America. This > is > > America, what is wrong with identifying with that?" When one is in the > > majority, there is really no need to call for "solidarity" or > > "preservation." Seeing as the Sunnis have been the majority of Muslims > > throughout history, it is understandable that they would prefer to "move > > forward" and "let the past stay in the past"....because it's their > ancestors > > who did the real bad things. The same situation occurs in America over > > slavery. "Why do black people keep insisting on reliving slavery. It's > over! > > Move on!" > > Yeah, that analogy also seems totally inappropriate. Sunnis and Shias > BOTH love Ahl al-Bayt .And there are many descendants of the Prophet > (saaws) among the Sunnis (not just the Shias.) Famous saints like > Abdul Qadir al-Jilani , the royal family of Jordan, modern Sufis like > Maulana Sheikh Nazim of the Nashbandis and others. So it's like you > are trying make an analogy to slavery when there are "black people" on > both sides. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto: > leave-534883-953325.e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > [email protected] > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-534898-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
