The Baha'i Studies Listserv Udo Shaefer was a prosecuting attorney in Germany for most of his life. His main objection to Protestantism was that it is too soft on crime.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Stephen Gray <[email protected]> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/21023921/An-Introduction-to-Bahai-Law > > Udo Shaefer implies Baha'i law mandates that it becomes the law of the land. > He is emphatic on sexual laws. He says that the fines on illegal sex even > between consenting heterosexual adults will cause legally imposed fines. > Other worse sex: homosexulaity, pederasty, etc. will have heavier fines, > imprisonment, and even the death penalty. > > ________________________________ > From: Sen & Sonja <[email protected]> > To: Stephen Gray <[email protected]>; Baha'i Studies > <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 11:39:20 AM > Subject: Re: Grave Influence > > On 29 Nov 2010 at 8:17, Stephen Gray wrote: > >> Social conservatism is a political or moral ideology that believes that >> government has a role in encouraging or enforcing what they consider >> traditional values or behaviors. ... Is the Baha'i Faith socially >> liberal on abortion? embryonic stem cell research? human enhancement? >> same-sex marriage? same-sex adoption? secularism in gov't and soiety? >> drugs? prostitution? pre-marital sex? extra-marital sex? euthanasia? >> pornography?. > > There are very few issues on which the Bahai teachings say that > government should, or should not, play a role. > > Bahais, for example, do not drink alcohol. But the Bahai writings do > not say whether governments should suppress or control the use of > alcohol in society. > > Two item in your list that are discussed in the Bahai writings are > drugs, and secularism in government. As for opium, Abdu'l-Baha > writes: > > In this, the cycle of Almighty God, > violence and force, constraint and oppression, are one and all > condemned. It is, however, mandatory that the use of opium be > prevented by any means whatsoever, that perchance the human > race may be delivered from this most powerful of plagues. And > otherwise, woe and misery to whoso falleth short of his duty to > his Lord. > (quoted in the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 238) > > As I understand it, this comes under the heading of the duty of > governments to provide for security, using force where necessary. > This is in addition to the religious prohibition on Bahais using mind- > altering substances except for medical purposes. > > As for secularism in government, Abdu'l-Baha says, > > "[To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul > is one of the duties and functions of government,.." "what need that > the government should persecute this one or that one, or disturb > itself about the ideas and consciences of its subjects and people? > All are the subjects of the king, and are under the shadow of the > royal protection. > > (Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveller's Narrative, 97-90) > > "... when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries > out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects > and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power > arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that > those countries made progress in every direction; and whereas the > mightiest monarchy of Europe had been servile to and abased before > the smallest government of Asia, now the great states of Asia are > unable to oppose the small states of Europe. These are effectual and > sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be > respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, > amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the > secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the > contingent world." > (Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveller's Narrative, p. 91) > > and Baha'ullah writes, in the Lawh-e Ashraf, (Gleanings, CII): > > The one true God, exalted be His glory, hath ever regarded, and > will continue to regard, the hearts of men as His own, His exclusive > possession. All else, whether pertaining to land or sea, whether > riches or glory, He hath bequeathed unto the Kings and rulers of the > earth. From the beginning that hath no beginning the ensign > proclaiming the words "He doeth whatsoever He willeth" hath been > unfurled in all its splendor before His Manifestation. > > And in the Surah-ye Bayan, (Gleanings CXXVIII): > > Out of the whole world He hath chosen for Himself the hearts of > men - hearts which the hosts of revelation and of utterance can > subdue. Thus hath it been ordained by the Fingers of Baha, upon the > Tablet of God´s irrevocable decree, by the behest of Him Who is the > Supreme Ordainer, the All-Knowing. > > It is precisely because of this principle, that one would not expect > to find in the Bahai teachings any detailed statements about what > policies, or taxes, governments should follow. However there are more > general statements about the ethics and goals of government, and in > particular an advocacy of the involvement of the various religious > communities in the process of governance (but not in government). > Baha´u'llah writes: > > "O people of God! Give ear unto that which, if heeded, will > ensure the freedom, well-being, tranquillity, exaltation and > advancement of all men. Certain laws and principles are necessary and > indispensable for Persia. However, it is fitting that these measures > should be adopted in conformity with the considered views of His > Majesty ... and of the learned divines and of the high-ranking rulers. > Subject to their approval a place should be fixed where they would > meet. There they should hold fast to the cord of consultation and > adopt and enforce that which is conducive to the security, > prosperity, wealth and tranquillity of the people. For were any > measure other than this to be adopted, it could not but result in > chaos and commotion. (Tablets of Baha´u'llah, 92) > > -- > > "The purpose of religion [in general, not one particular one!] ... > is to establish unity and concord amongst the peoples of the world; > make it not the cause of dissension and strife. The religion of God > and His divine law are the most potent instruments and the surest of > all means for the dawning of the light of unity amongst men. The > progress of the world, the development of nations, the tranquillity > of peoples, and the peace of all who dwell on earth are among the > principles and ordinances of God. ... It behoveth the chiefs and rulers > of the world, and in particular the Trustees of God´s House of > Justice [i.e., the leaders of the Bahai community], to endeavour to > the utmost of their power to safeguard its [religion's] position, > promote its interests and exalt its station in the eyes of the > world." > (Tablets of Baha´u'llah, 129) > > -- > > Abdu´l-Baha writes: > > "Universal benefits derive from the grace of the Divine > religions, [note the plural] for they lead their true followers to > sincerity of intent, to high purpose, to purity and spotless honor, > to surpassing kindness and compassion, to the keeping of their > covenants when they have covenanted, to concern for the rights of > others, to liberality, to justice in every aspect of life, to > humanity and philanthropy, to valor and to unflagging efforts in the > service of mankind. It is religion, to sum up, which produces all > human virtues, and it is these virtues which are the bright candles > of civilization." > (The Secret of Divine Civilization, 98) > ---- > > Sen > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Sen McGlinn http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com > > Happy are those who spend their days in gaining knowledge, in > discovering the secrets of nature, and in penetrating the subtleties > of > pure truth! Woe to those who are contented with ignorance, whose > hearts > are gladdened by thoughtless imitation, ... who have wasted their > lives!"(~Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions p.137) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-542489-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > [email protected] > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-542534-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
