Chuck,

That's a very good point.  I hadn't thought of the downside of offering our 
services to the city- which is further marginalizing bike projects by giving 
the city the impression that they don't need to put time and resources into 
them.  We need to be empowered in order to demand that our local government 
represents us and provides the services that we pay for- including complete 
streets planning, establishment, and maintenance. 

I still like the idea of groups of volunteers helping out to do things and to 
get the ball rolling, and I also agree with you that it is not a good idea to 
enable a system in a way that will further marginalize cyclists.  I recognize 
that cyclists are taxpaying road users and that we are beneficial to our 
community in many ways (less wear on streets than cars, no emissions into our 
airshed, likely to frequent local businesses, etc etc). 

There is a fine balance to be tread here- and I'm interested in hearing other 
people's constructive input about how to reach our goals of great biking (and 
accessible/ped/other non-motorized vehicle) infrastructure in a way that is 
fiscally sustainable.  And if we do want to contribute our own time and effort, 
how to make it additive upon resources that are in place rather than in place 
of resources that should be established?

-india

***********************
India Viola
UW-Madison 
Stretton Lab
115 Zoology Research Bldg.
1117 W. Johnson St.
Madison, WI 53706
608.262.3336
***********************

"How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" 
-Anonymous

"We exist in the bacterial world, not bacteria in ours" -Stuart Levy

----- Original Message -----
From: "STRAWSER, Charles" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, October 26, 2009 10:39 am
Subject: Re: [Bikies] Question on bicycle traffic counts
To: [email protected]

> I commend Larry for suggesting a way to collect sorely needed data 
> that the
> city has not had for far too long, and Larry and everyone else who
> volunteered to help.
> 
> But I would rather see the city spend the money and the staff time to 
> collect
> the data on bicyclists and pedestrians consistently as part of the planning
> and implementing of the public transportation infrastructure of the 
> city. The
> counter in Copenhagen (thanks for the link, Dipesh) would be 
> wonderful, and
> although no method of counting bikes and peds is as easy, or 
> presumably as
> cheap, as a hose count of motor vehicles, there are other technological
> methods that could work that are probably not as expensive as the one 
> in
> Copenhagen. 
> See http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/pedestrian-counts for 
> more on
> those other methods.
> 
> If the city doesn't have the money to collect the data on bicyclists and
> pedestrians as well as motor vehicles before planning and spending 
> money on
> transportation infrastructure, perhaps for the next several decades we 
> should
> organize a group of volunteers that could provide useful data to the
> transportation planners and engineers on motor vehicle use, particularly
> regarding counts that would be of interest to the motoring community.
> 
> chuck
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dipesh Navsaria
> 
> As an aside, I would *love* to see Madison put up a counter like this:
> 
> http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/05/bicyclists-count-in-copenhagen.html
> 
> Maybe Trek or someone would sponsor a permanent installation at a  
> couple of key locations?  Perhaps someplace that's also visible to  
> motorists?  :-)
> 
> --------------------
> From: Larry Nelson
> 
> [snip] I wonder if there are opportunities to establish a
> voluntary group of folks from this list that could provide useful data 
> to
> the transportation planners and engineers, particularly regarding counts
> that would be of interest to the biking community. [snip]
> _______________________________________________
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