Just realized that my earlier comment didn't go to all recipients, so forwarding here for more context to the image I sent out. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Grant Foster <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [SASYNA-Discussions] Bicycling on the sidewalk in Orton Park To: sasyna-discussions <[email protected]>
Thanks for raising the issue, Marsha. I'm really surprised to hear of the reports of people being clipped by bicycles here. Do you know if this is an issue anywhere else in the city? I know the multi-use paths have some bicycle/pedestrian collisions, but it would be interesting to get a better understanding of the issue. It is true that the paved route through the park is not as wide as a multi-use path and doesn't provide generous accommodations for a bike and a person or for two bikes, but it's really no different than any other stretch of sidewalk in the city. Bicycles are allowed on sidewalks in Madison except where buildings are abutting. Have similar complaints come in throughout the city? There are plenty of locations with higher volumes of foot and bike traffic; I'm genuinely surprised that this stretch of sidewalk through Orton would be a high-conflict area. I visit the park almost every day (most often on my bike) and feel that the current "Bicycles Prohibited" signage produces more conflict than anything else; I wonder to what degree it might actually feed into the reports you're receiving. It's very confusing and I believe sets up tension between people on foot and people on bikes. I think most people interpret it to mean that bicycles are prohibited in the park (including or even especially on this path). Someone actually complained to me about a month ago when I was riding through the park and I stopped and explained the ordinance to them (I think many others think I'm doing something wrong, but don't say anything). They had no idea that the prohibition was for riding on the turf and had the same reaction I did when I learned about it--a bike riding on the grass will hurt the oaks more than a thousand people jumping and dancing during the Fest each year? FWIW, I love to ride through the park on my bike. I used to live on the park (S. Ingersoll) and spent more time in it on foot then. Now it's one of the highlights of my ride into downtown and beyond. Yeah, it's a little shorter than staying on Rutledge to Ingersoll and that corner is awkward as it dips towards the lake. And, yeah, sight lines are not great for cars there and many come through much faster than they should with little room to navigate with narrow streets and parked cars, so I much prefer the Orton Park path. But more than anything it's a great park and a great curving path through the park and it gives me as much joy riding through it as it does others walking through it. Why would we want to limit the use of such a great space? People on bikes are totally compatible with people on foot; if there are a few bad apples riding recklessly, they won't be dissuaded from using the route with an ordinance change; instead it will only prevent those who use it safely from enjoying it. Would this just be a prohibition for adults or would we ban kids from riding there too? And skateboards? Rollerblades? Scooters? I see parents drop their kids off by bike for summer camp all the time; now we would expect them to dismount at the park's border and walk their bike instead? A person walking next to their bike will take up even more space than a person riding that bike. Should we prohibit 'cut-through' foot traffic as well? Those joggers are moving pretty quick... Will we then move to prohibit bike riding along Olbrich park? There's a lot more conflict there, especially on the very narrow bridge crossing the creek... My suggestion: request updated signage that clearly states that bicycle riding on the turf is prohibited in order to protect the trees and request that the current path be widened to 10 feet in the future to more comfortably accommodate all visitors to this gem of a park. Grant On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 8:44 PM tim wong [email protected] [SASYNA-Discussions] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Prohibiting bicycling in Orton Park is NOT a reasonable solution. There > are also ordinances on the books that require bicyclists to yield to > pedestrians, require giving a signal (bell or whatever) when passing, etc. > I would recommend enforcing the existing rules. I just don't get why > bicyclists would speed on that sidewalk when it's quite easy to go around > the park. When I don't see anyone, especially young kids (or even when I > do), I do ride on that diagonal sidewalk (Doug LaFollette's irritation > notwithstanding; I think that's why that sign is there in the first place; > I remember that from the '70s or '80s), but go around if I see anyone in > the park. It's too bad some people don't respect that, but a blanket > prohibition almost never solves anything. > > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 8:10 PM, 'Rummel, Marsha' > [email protected] [SASYNA-Discussions] < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> I have received recent complaints from people concerned that bicyclists >> are speeding through Orton Park. At least two people have reported to me >> that they have been clipped by bicyclists coming behind them. This park has >> playground equipment and is used regularly by young families and kids as >> well as runners and walkers. >> >> >> It is legal to ride your bikes on the sidewalk in a city park. There is a >> no bicycle sign in Orton but it is there to prohibit people from riding on >> the turf in order to protect the root zone of the oaks from compaction. >> >> >> Rutledge is a bike commuter route and some bicyclists use the >> diagonal park path as a cut through to Spaight St and avoid the sharp turn >> at Ingersoll (or Few St). >> >> >> I've attached the ordinance below. I could amend it and add Orton to the >> list that includes Henry Vilas Zoo as a prohibited parks for bicyclists to >> use if there is neighborhood support. >> >> >> I'd like to get feedback on people's experiences in the park in regard to >> concerns about excessive speed of bicyclists and imact on safety of other >> park users. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> Here is the ordinance. >> >> >> >> *8.31 BICYCLES IN PARKS.* >> >> (1) Purpose and Intent. The Common Council finds that as the use of City >> parks increases, it is in the public interest to protect and preserve >> parkland resources while making these resources accessible to the >> multiplicity of City park users. The Common Council specifically authorizes >> the Park Commission to identify trails within parkland suitable for bicycle >> use. The use of bicycles on >> >> trails not designated for that specific use denigrates the parkland by >> accelerating erosion and endangers hikers because of inadequate sight >> clearance. It is the intent of this ordinance to reconcile the desires of >> individual park users with the need to preserve the resources for all >> citizens and to that end to designate certain parks and park areas for use >> consistent with safety, >> >> preservation of natural resources and recreational enjoyment. >> >> (2) Definitions. >> >> “Bicycle” has the meaning specified in Wis. Stat. § 340.01(5). >> >> “City park” means City-owned property designated and operated as a park for >> general recreational use but does not include greenways or conservation >> parks. >> >> “Conservation park” has the meaning specified in Sec. 8.40(2), MGO. >> >> “Natural area” means any area not mowed on a regular basis to turf 6” or >> less in height. >> >> “Roadway” means highway as defined in Wis. Stat. § 340.01(22). >> >> “Trail” means any maintained travel route through a natural area, the >> surface of which may be >> >> dirt, mowed turf, gravel, wood chips or boardwalk. >> >> (3) Bicycles Allowed. Any person may ride a bicycle: >> >> (a) in a City park on paved roadways, parking areas, paved paths and mowed >> turf areas >> >> which are not trails. >> >> (b) anywhere in Quarry Park. >> >> (c) on two designated trails in Edna Taylor Park, providing access to >> Femrite Drive and >> >> Glendale School, respectively. >> >> (d) on one designated trail through Owen Park, running from Inner Drive to >> Bordner Drive. >> >> (e) other specific areas designated and posted according to an order issued >> by the Park >> >> Commission. >> >> (4) Prohibitions. >> >> (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle on any trail or >> natural area in any City >> >> park except trails or areas designated and posted as open to bicycles, >> according to an >> >> order issued by the Park Commission. >> >> (b) It shall be unlawful for any person to ride or operate any bicycle >> within areas of the >> >> Henry Vilas Zoo unless specific permission has been granted by the Henry >> Vilas Zoo >> >> Director. (Am. by ORD-11-00168, 12-6-11) >> >> Sec. 8.31(4)(c) PUBLIC PROPERTY >> >> Rev. 12/15/11 8 - 18 >> >> (c) It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle on a mowed turf >> area in City parks >> >> when such area has been designated and posted as closed to bicycles, >> according to an >> >> order issued by the Park Commission. >> >> (5) Penalty. Any person violating this ordinance shall be subject to a fine >> of not less than ten dollars >> >> ($10) nor more than fifty dollars ($50). >> >> (Cr. by Ord. 8055, 6-17-83; >> >> >> > > > -- > "If we continue to consume the world until there's no more to consume, > then there's going to come a day, sure as hell, when our children or their > children or their children's children are going to look back on us--on you > and me--and say to themselves, 'My God, what kind of monsters were these > people?'" > > --Daniel Quinn > > __._,_.___ > ------------------------------ > Posted by: tim wong <[email protected]> > ------------------------------ > Reply via web post > <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SASYNA-Discussions/conversations/messages/20209;_ylc=X3oDMTJwam9pYTE5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUxNTc2MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDQ1NjEEbXNnSWQDMjAyMDkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxNDM4NTY2MjUx?act=reply&messageNum=20209> > • Reply to sender > <[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSASYNA-Discussions%5D%20Bicycling%20on%20the%20sidewalk%20in%20Orton%20Park> > • Reply to group > <[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20%5BSASYNA-Discussions%5D%20Bicycling%20on%20the%20sidewalk%20in%20Orton%20Park> > • Start a New Topic > <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SASYNA-Discussions/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJkN3AydWxjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUxNTc2MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDQ1NjEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDM4NTY2MjUx> > • Messages in this topic > <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SASYNA-Discussions/conversations/topics/20208;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZmxhN20zBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUxNTc2MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDQ1NjEEbXNnSWQDMjAyMDkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDM4NTY2MjUxBHRwY0lkAzIwMjA4> > (2) > Visit Your Group > <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SASYNA-Discussions/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdWFxNDNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUxNTc2MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDQ1NjEEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxNDM4NTY2MjUx> > > > [image: Yahoo! 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