Hey Jason! No, I don’t know whether it was BWT or not—I just meant BWT in general. You’re right that the OP said “filtration system” so it may or may not have benefitted the machine in terms of scale.
Best, b > On May 2, 2023, at 09:31, Jason Scott <[email protected]> wrote: > > Oh, I didn't realize it was a BWT! That would definitely make a difference. > > On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 10:20:20 AM UTC-5 Ben McCafferty wrote: > Hey Jason! > I’ll have to check out that Govee plug—a remodel here resulted in a few > devices on a 20A circuit that shouldn’t be, I wonder if it will help. I throw > a breaker once in a while when they all cycle on at once by coincidence. > > Re: filtration not helping a hard water supply—it depends. The BWT does in > fact claim to reduce or eliminate minerals and scale (and in my experience it > lives up to that claim—both with TDS testing and with empirical results when > I swapped a heating element). But just a basic water filter wouldn’t. Since > BWT is specifically intended for espresso, it also has a bypass setting that > lets you choose how much mineral is going into the machine and shot, so you > don’t eliminate all minerals—i.e. distilled water would produce a flavorless > shot, relatively speaking. Having used the BWT setup for maybe 6 years now, > I’m totally dumbfounded that it’s not sold with every machine ever. > > Cheers! > b > > >> On May 2, 2023, at 07:53, Jason Scott <[email protected] >> <applewebdata://AF5E9F4B-57AD-4D52-A28F-369ED747C068>> wrote: >> > >> Being on filtration is good... but still doesn't do anything to a hard water >> supply. Some parts of the country don't suffer from this curse, but if >> you're in hard water country, it's something to be aware of. >> As for the "heavy duty timer", all you need is a smart plug! I bought the >> Govee Smart plug, set up a quick schedule for it on my phone, and now I have >> a custom on/off schedule for every day of the week! It's also worth noting >> that I have the upgraded steam heating element that draws a FULL (measured) >> 2,000w of power, and the Govee has handled it just fine. I bought a 4-pack >> of them just in case this amount of power chewed through them, but I'm at >> least 6 months in on the first plug and it's working great. >> Even the control board CAN be repaired (if you're remotely handy). The 2kw >> steam element quickly burned out the steam heater relay on the control >> board, but it was trivial to simply bypass that and route the traces to an >> external heavy duty 20A relay. As others have said, they're GREAT machines >> for tinkerers! >> >> On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 9:18:57 AM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >> It’s on my ever growing shopping list... >> >> >>> On May 2, 2023, at 8:01 AM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus <bre...@ >>> <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>> wrote: >>> >> >>> Same. Does that make us sort of reverse-lurkers or something? I.e. formerly >>> active and now not? >>> >>> Peter—one other thought re: warmup time—a heavy duty timer is your friend! >>> >>> b >>> >>>> On May 2, 2023, at 05:25, Herman Dickens <herman...@ <>gmail.com >>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey Ben! It's been a while. Sorry I've been flying under the radar. >>>> >>>> Herman >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 11:06 PM 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus <bre...@ >>>> <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>> wrote: >>>> Hey Herman! >>>> >>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 19:23, Herman Dickens <herman...@ <>gmail.com >>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sounds like a good deal to me. I have one of the original BII's still >>>>> running part time. >>>>> >>>>> Herman >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 8:25 PM peter riess <plr...@ <>gmail.com >>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>> Update - It’s been on a filtration system since it was purchased and it >>>>> comes with a back stock of replacement parts. I feel pretty confident and >>>>> at $600, maybe worth the future trouble? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:34 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus <bre...@ >>>>>> <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ps one way you can do This is just to go ahead and replace everything >>>>>> that can fail. Then you basically get a new machine with your own labor >>>>>> to blame for any failures, ha ha. That would definitely get you a period >>>>>> of reliability, but possibly with unnecessary expense up front. >>>>>> >>>>>> b >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 16:16, peter riess <plr...@ <>gmail.com >>>>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ben, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Every few months? That may be more that I can stand… $700 is sounding >>>>>>> expensive at that rate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder how much time and money do you think Expobar owners are >>>>>>> spending on annual maintenance? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:02 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus <bre...@ >>>>>>>> <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A bunch of great advice here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Plumbed/vs water jug. Soooooo nice to have it plumbed. Even nicer to >>>>>>>> have the drain plumbed. Having done both with my current machine, I’d >>>>>>>> never go back. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pitcher’s advice re: bigger heating element is good; you can also >>>>>>>> adjust the pressure stat to set the steam boiler to its max, around >>>>>>>> 1.45 bar if memory serves. This made a world of difference for me vs. >>>>>>>> stock settings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As to the multiple failed p-stats per year (that is quite exceptional >>>>>>>> Adam!), I don’t recall the brand but we used to discuss switching to a >>>>>>>> non-stock model that was available at Chris’ Coffee and maybe Espresso >>>>>>>> Parts. It was great (Jaeger maybe?). Search my old posts and you’ll >>>>>>>> find it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Heat time—half hour is about right, to really get the group head up to >>>>>>>> temp (which is the strength of this machine’s design, as is the case >>>>>>>> with all E61’s). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Price—$700 max sounds reasonable. You could always mention this group >>>>>>>> and the consensus here? By about 10 years of age, I was working on my >>>>>>>> machine every few months, and after about 2 more years of that, went >>>>>>>> with the ECM instead. Holy crap have they gotten expensive though! The >>>>>>>> ECM likes to eat vacuum breakers, and also they have a silicon tube >>>>>>>> that goes from the vacuum breaker to the drip tray (a nice touch, >>>>>>>> keeps the steam condensation out of the housing). That tubing rots >>>>>>>> regularly also. I’ve done one element, very easy replacement method. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> By the by, I mentioned using teflon tape instead of the liquid >>>>>>>> sealant. Another plus there—you’ll get to know the joy of removing a >>>>>>>> heating element from a Brewtus if it’s glued in with the factory >>>>>>>> sealant—definitely need a friend with an impact hammer and a way to >>>>>>>> clamp the boiler in a vise without bending it. With teflon tape, the >>>>>>>> remove/replace is worlds easier. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rotary and PID were great (I upgraded to both on my B2)—the vibe pump >>>>>>>> was a regular replacement item also; the rotary never needed work >>>>>>>> other than setting the pressure when I installed it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backflush weekly with cafiza—and let it soak in there for an hour >>>>>>>> under pressure if you can! It will keep your shots really nice. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best of luck, keep us posted! >>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 13:56, peter riess <plr...@ <>gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sounds like my old hot tub… Thanks to it, I could probably have a >>>>>>>>> part time tub repair job! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyway, thanks again. I’ll see if I can get it to a dollar point >>>>>>>>> where it feels like a fun hobby, not a money pit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Adam Meade <awmea...@ <>gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When I got my IV-Rotary, I stuck the hose in a jug of water for a >>>>>>>>>> few months until I was able to plumb it in. No issues there. When >>>>>>>>>> I did plumb it, my water pressure was too high causing a leak in the >>>>>>>>>> machine so I had to add a pressure regulator upstream from it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'll echo what others have said... you'd best be handy to own this >>>>>>>>>> machine. In the 6 or so years I have owned it, I've replaced >>>>>>>>>> several parts including a control board, a heating element, a >>>>>>>>>> sensor, and for whatever reason I am averaging going through about >>>>>>>>>> two pressurestat per year (I buy them in bulk now). If you enjoy >>>>>>>>>> learning about these machines and don't mind working on them, then >>>>>>>>>> go for it, but if you don't, then steer clear. On the upside, this >>>>>>>>>> group is extremely helpful as has been Whole Latte Love tech support. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For heat up time, mine is about 8-10 minutes for the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>> followed by about 10 for the brew boiler. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 4:32 PM Jason Scott <jason....@ <>gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hmmm, others will have to chime in on whether or not you can just >>>>>>>>>> stick a hose into a water vessel. I tend to think that the rotary >>>>>>>>>> pump needs a minimum water pressure to function, but I could be >>>>>>>>>> wrong there. >>>>>>>>>> 35 minutes is more than enough time to heat up. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 3:19:34 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>>>>>> The Brewtus Crew is awesome, thanks all. Good to hear this as well. >>>>>>>>>> I’m currently using a GCP so this would be a big upgrade. Maybe a >>>>>>>>>> huge time suck as well.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is 35min accurate for heat up time? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts on plumbing vs dropping the tube into a big ol jug of >>>>>>>>>> good H2O. Plumbing would entail splitting my the icemachine line and >>>>>>>>>> figuring out an inline filter and some holes in counters, walls, >>>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:09 PM, Jason Scott <jason....@ <>gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> They're no longer made, but the parts are all pretty universal >>>>>>>>>>> (heating elements, steam/water controls, pstat, etc.) I think I'd >>>>>>>>>>> be right there with you on the price. I would LIKELY pass on a >>>>>>>>>>> leaking machine at $950, but would likely jump on it at $600-$700. >>>>>>>>>>> The plumbed rotary IV version is quite a nice machine. My biggest >>>>>>>>>>> gripe (which is a common one) is the lack of steam power, but there >>>>>>>>>>> are ways to improve that with different tips/wands. I chose a >>>>>>>>>>> higher-wattage steam element, and if the elements are due for >>>>>>>>>>> replacement anyway, this is an option (but not a trivial option, as >>>>>>>>>>> it does involve replacing wiring that's not intended for higher >>>>>>>>>>> current). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 2:51:19 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that beta! Good info to take into consideration. The ask >>>>>>>>>>> is $950 but, assuming the worst, I wouldn’t want to pay much more >>>>>>>>>>> than $600-700. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> She also has some back up bits and parts, prepared for the end of >>>>>>>>>>> the line for the brand. I gather these are no longer made and parts >>>>>>>>>>> are harder to find than for an old Quick Mill, for example?? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 1:32 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus <bre...@ >>>>>>>>>>>> <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey there Peter, >>>>>>>>>>>> I think you have some unknowns here, and the bottom line is: what >>>>>>>>>>>> discount are you getting, how willing are you to replace/repair >>>>>>>>>>>> parts, and as Pitcher said how handy are you? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I owned a B2 from new for 12 years or so (still have it, no longer >>>>>>>>>>>> in service), and now have an ECM (another E61 machine, very >>>>>>>>>>>> similar). At 8 years, you are definitely into the phase where you >>>>>>>>>>>> will be replacing things and I feel that’s to be expected. As to >>>>>>>>>>>> the lack of descaling, that may or may not be an issue—where I >>>>>>>>>>>> live, I rarely descaled my brewtus and didn’t have any buildup to >>>>>>>>>>>> mention. Definitely not the case in all areas. As an aside, I’ve >>>>>>>>>>>> been using the BWT system (WLL carries it) for maybe 6 years now >>>>>>>>>>>> and it is money well spent. No more descaling is their claim, it’s >>>>>>>>>>>> been true for me (I live in a different area now than I did with >>>>>>>>>>>> the B2 that didn’t scale, harder water here). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If it were me, I’d consider the following parts likely to need >>>>>>>>>>>> replacing relatively soon: >>>>>>>>>>>> —both boiler elements >>>>>>>>>>>> —overheat sensors on top of both boilers >>>>>>>>>>>> —pressurestat >>>>>>>>>>>> —vibe pump if it’s a vibe machine and possibly solenoid/plunger >>>>>>>>>>>> —miscellaneous copper and silicon tubing, esp the copper tubing to >>>>>>>>>>>> the hot water boiler which is prone to clogging shut >>>>>>>>>>>> —seals for the E61 group >>>>>>>>>>>> —vacuum breaker for the steam boiler (this can be repaired with a >>>>>>>>>>>> simple o-ring, instead of buying the whole part from a vendor—I >>>>>>>>>>>> have a bag of 100 high temp/food grade and happy to send you one >>>>>>>>>>>> or more). >>>>>>>>>>>> —E61 portafilter gasket and screen >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Less likely but possible: >>>>>>>>>>>> —PID >>>>>>>>>>>> —Giemme control box >>>>>>>>>>>> —over pressure relief valve on the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>>>> —seals for the wands >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So if you add those up, and they are less than the discount you’re >>>>>>>>>>>> getting on the machine vs. new (and you like to work on machines), >>>>>>>>>>>> I’d say go for it! In any case, you will know the machine well, >>>>>>>>>>>> and since you’ll be doing future maintenance on any machine, it’s >>>>>>>>>>>> good knowledge to have. Meanwhile, I’d just get the machine and >>>>>>>>>>>> use it, fix the leak, and then be pleasantly surprised (and money >>>>>>>>>>>> ahead) for the time that you don’t need to do the things I >>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned above. ;) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As to Pitcher’s comment about his machine leaking since new, that >>>>>>>>>>>> is not normal in my experience. I can’t recall a leak in mine >>>>>>>>>>>> ever, unless a line blew or something like that. You should be >>>>>>>>>>>> able to chase that down and fix it, I hope you can too Pitcher! >>>>>>>>>>>> Water under the machine is one of those things that drains my >>>>>>>>>>>> energy fast—just annoys the crap out of me I guess! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One tip/suggestion—Expobar uses a liquid sealant on threads. It >>>>>>>>>>>> works great, but it sets up FAST. You have to be really quick to >>>>>>>>>>>> get things aligned, etc., especially on the pump assembly. I have >>>>>>>>>>>> always used yellow teflon tape instead (you could add teflon paste >>>>>>>>>>>> over the tape if you wish) and have never had a leak that I can >>>>>>>>>>>> recall. Just might save you a little headache/heartburn. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best and good luck with the decision and/or new machine! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:08, peter riess <plr...@ <>gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply. From her description the dripping is coming >>>>>>>>>>>>> from a spot under one of the boilers. I assume it was build for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the states. My biggest concern I guess is the maintenance over >>>>>>>>>>>>> the last 8 yrs... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:58 PM, Pitcher Pitcher <ezekie...@ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <>gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think the dripping is a sign of something major. Mine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is 15 years old and it drips since I have owned it. I would have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to see where it is dripping from to give you a better idea. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some things to consider if you are going to purchase. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How handy are you? Some things I would recommend doing to your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine to make it more hardy. Is the machine for the States or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Overseas? The machine was built for 220 v 10 amps. The States >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I live are 120 v 20 amps. The extra amps over time has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> caused some problems. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 10:46 AM peter riess <plr...@ <>gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seller claims she bought it new from WLL. Works well bur >>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently it drips a small amount of discolored water as it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> warms up. Collects on counter under machine. She's never >>>>>>>>>>>>>> descaled it for the 8+/- yrs she's owned it. I am not sure about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> her water quality but she has it on a filter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the dripping raise a hairy red flag?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to brewtus+u...@ <>googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Pitcher" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Pitcher >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ezekie...@ <>gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 225-408-9041 <tel:(225)%20408-9041> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to brewtus+u...@ <>googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/CACn%2BS8Fx2sED_Qdsyb0m%3D4z9aogMewzBDjKf_e9vz3eEGULamQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/CACn%2BS8Fx2sED_Qdsyb0m%3D4z9aogMewzBDjKf_e9vz3eEGULamQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/5fbe977b-dd4e-4909-ad28-64e1f836af7cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to brewtus+u...@ <>googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/a9d81081-951c-44df-821b-3209e5402a01n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/a9d81081-951c-44df-821b-3209e5402a01n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/85DA36D5-92D6-4053-9AC8-CDACD7B9C699%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to brewtus+u...@ <>googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/6A80D0E1-9474-4704-B23A-2C96C491CF4E%40me.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/6A80D0E1-9474-4704-B23A-2C96C491CF4E%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to brewtus+u...@ <>googlegroups.com 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