Oh, I didn't realize it was a BWT! That would definitely make a difference.
On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 10:20:20 AM UTC-5 Ben McCafferty wrote: > Hey Jason! > I’ll have to check out that Govee plug—a remodel here resulted in a few > devices on a 20A circuit that shouldn’t be, I wonder if it will help. I > throw a breaker once in a while when they all cycle on at once by > coincidence. > > Re: filtration not helping a hard water supply—it depends. The BWT does in > fact claim to reduce or eliminate minerals and scale (and in my experience > it lives up to that claim—both with TDS testing and with empirical results > when I swapped a heating element). But just a basic water filter wouldn’t. > Since BWT is specifically intended for espresso, it also has a bypass > setting that lets you choose how much mineral is going into the machine and > shot, so you don’t eliminate all minerals—i.e. distilled water would > produce a flavorless shot, relatively speaking. Having used the BWT setup > for maybe 6 years now, I’m totally dumbfounded that it’s not sold with > every machine ever. > > Cheers! > b > > On May 2, 2023, at 07:53, Jason Scott <[email protected]> wrote: > > Being on filtration is good... but still doesn't do anything to a hard > water supply. Some parts of the country don't suffer from this curse, but > if you're in hard water country, it's something to be aware of. > As for the "heavy duty timer", all you need is a smart plug! I bought the > Govee Smart plug, set up a quick schedule for it on my phone, and now I > have a custom on/off schedule for every day of the week! It's also worth > noting that I have the upgraded steam heating element that draws a FULL > (measured) 2,000w of power, and the Govee has handled it just fine. I > bought a 4-pack of them just in case this amount of power chewed through > them, but I'm at least 6 months in on the first plug and it's working > great. > Even the control board CAN be repaired (if you're remotely handy). The 2kw > steam element quickly burned out the steam heater relay on the control > board, but it was trivial to simply bypass that and route the traces to an > external heavy duty 20A relay. As others have said, they're GREAT machines > for tinkerers! > > On Tuesday, May 2, 2023 at 9:18:57 AM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: > >> It’s on my ever growing shopping list... >> >> On May 2, 2023, at 8:01 AM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Same. Does that make us sort of reverse-lurkers or something? I.e. >> formerly active and now not? >> >> Peter—one other thought re: warmup time—a heavy duty timer is your friend! >> >> b >> >> On May 2, 2023, at 05:25, Herman Dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hey Ben! It's been a while. Sorry I've been flying under the radar. >> >> Herman >> >> >> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 11:06 PM 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hey Herman! >>> >>> On May 1, 2023, at 19:23, Herman Dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Sounds like a good deal to me. I have one of the original BII's still >>> running part time. >>> >>> Herman >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 8:25 PM peter riess <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Update - It’s been on a filtration system since it was purchased and it >>>> comes with a back stock of replacement parts. I feel pretty confident and >>>> at $600, maybe worth the future trouble? >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:34 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Ps one way you can do This is just to go ahead and replace everything >>>> that can fail. Then you basically get a new machine with your own labor to >>>> blame for any failures, ha ha. That would definitely get you a period of >>>> reliability, but possibly with unnecessary expense up front. >>>> >>>> b >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 16:16, peter riess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Ben, >>>> >>>> Every few months? That may be more that I can stand… $700 is sounding >>>> expensive at that rate. >>>> >>>> I wonder how much time and money do you think Expobar owners are >>>> spending on annual maintenance? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:02 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> A bunch of great advice here. >>>> >>>> Plumbed/vs water jug. Soooooo nice to have it plumbed. Even nicer to >>>> have the drain plumbed. Having done both with my current machine, I’d >>>> never >>>> go back. >>>> >>>> Pitcher’s advice re: bigger heating element is good; you can also >>>> adjust the pressure stat to set the steam boiler to its max, around 1.45 >>>> bar if memory serves. This made a world of difference for me vs. stock >>>> settings. >>>> >>>> As to the multiple failed p-stats per year (that is quite exceptional >>>> Adam!), I don’t recall the brand but we used to discuss switching to a >>>> non-stock model that was available at Chris’ Coffee and maybe Espresso >>>> Parts. It was great (Jaeger maybe?). Search my old posts and you’ll find >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Heat time—half hour is about right, to really get the group head up to >>>> temp (which is the strength of this machine’s design, as is the case with >>>> all E61’s). >>>> >>>> Price—$700 max sounds reasonable. You could always mention this group >>>> and the consensus here? By about 10 years of age, I was working on my >>>> machine every few months, and after about 2 more years of that, went with >>>> the ECM instead. Holy crap have they gotten expensive though! The ECM >>>> likes >>>> to eat vacuum breakers, and also they have a silicon tube that goes from >>>> the vacuum breaker to the drip tray (a nice touch, keeps the steam >>>> condensation out of the housing). That tubing rots regularly also. I’ve >>>> done one element, very easy replacement method. >>>> >>>> By the by, I mentioned using teflon tape instead of the liquid sealant. >>>> Another plus there—you’ll get to know the joy of removing a heating >>>> element >>>> from a Brewtus if it’s glued in with the factory sealant—definitely need a >>>> friend with an impact hammer and a way to clamp the boiler in a vise >>>> without bending it. With teflon tape, the remove/replace is worlds easier. >>>> >>>> Rotary and PID were great (I upgraded to both on my B2)—the vibe pump >>>> was a regular replacement item also; the rotary never needed work other >>>> than setting the pressure when I installed it. >>>> >>>> Backflush weekly with cafiza—and let it soak in there for an hour under >>>> pressure if you can! It will keep your shots really nice. >>>> >>>> Best of luck, keep us posted! >>>> b >>>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 13:56, peter riess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sounds like my old hot tub… Thanks to it, I could probably have a part >>>> time tub repair job! >>>> >>>> Anyway, thanks again. I’ll see if I can get it to a dollar point where >>>> it feels like a fun hobby, not a money pit. >>>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Adam Meade <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> When I got my IV-Rotary, I stuck the hose in a jug of water for a few >>>> months until I was able to plumb it in. No issues there. When I did >>>> plumb >>>> it, my water pressure was too high causing a leak in the machine so I had >>>> to add a pressure regulator upstream from it. >>>> >>>> I'll echo what others have said... you'd best be handy to own this >>>> machine. In the 6 or so years I have owned it, I've replaced several >>>> parts >>>> including a control board, a heating element, a sensor, and for whatever >>>> reason I am averaging going through about two pressurestat per year (I buy >>>> them in bulk now). If you enjoy learning about these machines and don't >>>> mind working on them, then go for it, but if you don't, then steer clear. >>>> On the upside, this group is extremely helpful as has been Whole Latte >>>> Love tech support. >>>> >>>> For heat up time, mine is about 8-10 minutes for the steam boiler >>>> followed by about 10 for the brew boiler. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 4:32 PM Jason Scott <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hmmm, others will have to chime in on whether or not you can just >>>>> stick a hose into a water vessel. I tend to think that the rotary pump >>>>> needs a minimum water pressure to function, but I could be wrong there. >>>>> 35 minutes is more than enough time to heat up. >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 3:19:34 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The Brewtus Crew is awesome, thanks all. Good to hear this as well. >>>>>> I’m currently using a GCP so this would be a big upgrade. Maybe a huge >>>>>> time >>>>>> suck as well.. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is 35min accurate for heat up time? >>>>>> >>>>>> Any thoughts on plumbing vs dropping the tube into a big ol jug of >>>>>> good H2O. Plumbing would entail splitting my the icemachine line and >>>>>> figuring out an inline filter and some holes in counters, walls, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:09 PM, Jason Scott <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> They're no longer made, but the parts are all pretty universal >>>>>> (heating elements, steam/water controls, pstat, etc.) I think I'd be >>>>>> right >>>>>> there with you on the price. I would LIKELY pass on a leaking machine at >>>>>> $950, but would likely jump on it at $600-$700. The plumbed rotary IV >>>>>> version is quite a nice machine. My biggest gripe (which is a common >>>>>> one) >>>>>> is the lack of steam power, but there are ways to improve that with >>>>>> different tips/wands. I chose a higher-wattage steam element, and if the >>>>>> elements are due for replacement anyway, this is an option (but not a >>>>>> trivial option, as it does involve replacing wiring that's not intended >>>>>> for >>>>>> higher current). >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 2:51:19 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for that beta! Good info to take into consideration. The ask >>>>>>> is $950 but, assuming the worst, I wouldn’t want to pay much more than >>>>>>> $600-700. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She also has some back up bits and parts, prepared for the end of >>>>>>> the line for the brand. I gather these are no longer made and parts are >>>>>>> harder to find than for an old Quick Mill, for example?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 1:32 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey there Peter, >>>>>>> I think you have some unknowns here, and the bottom line is: what >>>>>>> discount are you getting, how willing are you to replace/repair parts, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> as Pitcher said how handy are you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I owned a B2 from new for 12 years or so (still have it, no longer >>>>>>> in service), and now have an ECM (another E61 machine, very similar). >>>>>>> At 8 >>>>>>> years, you are definitely into the phase where you will be replacing >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> and I feel that’s to be expected. As to the lack of descaling, that may >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> may not be an issue—where I live, I rarely descaled my brewtus and >>>>>>> didn’t >>>>>>> have any buildup to mention. Definitely not the case in all areas. As >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> aside, I’ve been using the BWT system (WLL carries it) for maybe 6 >>>>>>> years >>>>>>> now and it is money well spent. No more descaling is their claim, it’s >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> true for me (I live in a different area now than I did with the B2 that >>>>>>> didn’t scale, harder water here). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If it were me, I’d consider the following parts likely to need >>>>>>> replacing relatively soon: >>>>>>> —both boiler elements >>>>>>> —overheat sensors on top of both boilers >>>>>>> —pressurestat >>>>>>> —vibe pump if it’s a vibe machine and possibly solenoid/plunger >>>>>>> —miscellaneous copper and silicon tubing, esp the copper tubing to >>>>>>> the hot water boiler which is prone to clogging shut >>>>>>> —seals for the E61 group >>>>>>> —vacuum breaker for the steam boiler (this can be repaired with a >>>>>>> simple o-ring, instead of buying the whole part from a vendor—I have a >>>>>>> bag >>>>>>> of 100 high temp/food grade and happy to send you one or more). >>>>>>> —E61 portafilter gasket and screen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Less likely but possible: >>>>>>> —PID >>>>>>> —Giemme control box >>>>>>> —over pressure relief valve on the steam boiler >>>>>>> —seals for the wands >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So if you add those up, and they are less than the discount you’re >>>>>>> getting on the machine vs. new (and you like to work on machines), I’d >>>>>>> say >>>>>>> go for it! In any case, you will know the machine well, and since >>>>>>> you’ll be >>>>>>> doing future maintenance on any machine, it’s good knowledge to have. >>>>>>> Meanwhile, I’d just get the machine and use it, fix the leak, and then >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> pleasantly surprised (and money ahead) for the time that you don’t need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> do the things I mentioned above. ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As to Pitcher’s comment about his machine leaking since new, that is >>>>>>> not normal in my experience. I can’t recall a leak in mine ever, unless >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> line blew or something like that. You should be able to chase that down >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> fix it, I hope you can too Pitcher! Water under the machine is one of >>>>>>> those >>>>>>> things that drains my energy fast—just annoys the crap out of me I >>>>>>> guess! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One tip/suggestion—Expobar uses a liquid sealant on threads. It >>>>>>> works great, but it sets up FAST. You have to be really quick to get >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> aligned, etc., especially on the pump assembly. I have always used >>>>>>> yellow >>>>>>> teflon tape instead (you could add teflon paste over the tape if you >>>>>>> wish) >>>>>>> and have never had a leak that I can recall. Just might save you a >>>>>>> little >>>>>>> headache/heartburn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best and good luck with the decision and/or new machine! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> b >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:08, peter riess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the reply. From her description the dripping is coming >>>>>>> from a spot under one of the boilers. I assume it was build for the >>>>>>> states. >>>>>>> My biggest concern I guess is the maintenance over the last 8 yrs... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:58 PM, Pitcher Pitcher <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not think the dripping is a sign of something major. Mine is 15 >>>>>>> years old and it drips since I have owned it. I would have to see where >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> is dripping from to give you a better idea. There are some things to >>>>>>> consider if you are going to purchase. How handy are you? Some things I >>>>>>> would recommend doing to your machine to make it more hardy. Is the >>>>>>> machine >>>>>>> for the States or Overseas? The machine was built for 220 v 10 amps. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> States where I live are 120 v 20 amps. The extra amps over time has >>>>>>> caused >>>>>>> some problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 10:46 AM peter riess <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Seller claims she bought it new from WLL. Works well bur apparently >>>>>>>> it drips a small amount of discolored water as it warms up. Collects >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> counter under machine. She's never descaled it for the 8+/- yrs she's >>>>>>>> owned >>>>>>>> it. I am not sure about her water quality but she has it on a filter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does the dripping raise a hairy red flag?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> "Pitcher" >>>>>>> Stephen Pitcher >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> 225-408-9041 <(225)%20408-9041> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/3508BEAD-4CA1-4958-A4B5-BFACB47BFF7C%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/brewtus/AdQF0ugls1E/unsubscribe. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/EBEAEE7C-6F5D-4F15-A2C3-93AE97345AAA%40me.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/EBEAEE7C-6F5D-4F15-A2C3-93AE97345AAA%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/5fbe977b-dd4e-4909-ad28-64e1f836af7cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/5fbe977b-dd4e-4909-ad28-64e1f836af7cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/a9d81081-951c-44df-821b-3209e5402a01n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/a9d81081-951c-44df-821b-3209e5402a01n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message 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