At 16:37 2-12-01 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > > Tom, what are you trying to accomplish here? If you are trying to polarise > > the Israel/Palestine debate, you are doing an excellent job. Calling >anyone > > who shows even a hint of criticism of Israel "a fucking Nazi" does not > > exactly contribute to an increase in mutual understanding. > > > >I suggest you read the posts again. In his own post, Tom criticized Israel. >Since he did not call himself a Nazi, then by definition, he could not call >everyone who critized Israel Nazis.
I did read that post again. Judging from the language he uses in that post, it seems to me he considers everyone (except himself) who criticizes Israel to be a Nazi. > > I most certainly do not. I do not believe *anyone* should be persecuted > >and killed for their religious beliefs. > >But, why do you find nothing right at all with Israel? Why do you have such >a double standard? I do not have a double standard; as I said before, when you never *hear* anything good about Israel, it is hard to *say* anything good about Israel. > > Sigh. Not this again. Note that I criticize Israel's politics, not its > > religion. Anti-Semitism means hating Jews; I do not hate Jews (why should > > I?) >If you want to look at the reason that you appear anti-Semetic to many, you >might want to look at a fundamental asymmetry in your arguements. You >strain at every Israelie gnat and swallow Palestinian camels. Thus, it is >very reasonable to conclude that you have a double standard. The reason for me appearing to be anti-Semitic to Americans lies in the difference between Europeans and Americans. Over here we are capable of making a distinction between the *politics* and the *religion* of Israel. From where I am standing, Americans seem to have enormous difficulty making that distinction. >As for the reason, you live in a country where, for the most part, Jewish >people are afraid to live. I do not buy that. I have no reason whatsoever to believe Jews are afraid to live here. The Netherlands is a very tolerant society, including when it comes to religion. Sure, there are some people here who hate everyone who does not share their religious views, but you have those people in every country. >There use to be a flourishing Jewish community, >which has shrunk to near zero. There are two reasons for that. First, a large number of them were deported and murdered by Nazi Germany. Second, the Jews have always wanted a country for themselves (Israel), so when Israel was founded after WW2, many Jews left to live there where they really wanted to live. Mind you, they left voluntarily; nobody here forced them to leave, and they were quite welcome to stay here. Now, let's say you have always wanted to live in sunny California, but could not afford it. You hit the jackpot, win 50 million dollars, and now can afford that beach side property. Would you not leave for California now that you can afford it? >Is it unreasonable to assume that you have accidently picked up anti-Semetic >memes that are floating around? That is indeed unreasonable. We have a pretty tolerant society over here, and unlike in the US, religion is not a big issue here. People over here do not go about claiming loudly that they are Christian/Jew/Muslem/<whatever>; here people just follow the religion of their choice and keep it to what it is: a personal matter. When it comes to racial discrimination of blacks, the US has a few centuries worth of history they should not be proud of. Following your line of reasoning, it would be reasonable to assume you must have picked up anti-black memes. And to follow the black-and-white reasoning of "if you criticize Israel, you *must* be anti-Semitic": anyone who criticizes the US *must* be anti-Christian, and anyone who criticizes Palestine *must* be anti-Islam... (not that I agree with that). Jeroen _________________________________________________________________________ Wonderful World of Brin-L Website: http://go.to/brin-l Tom's Photo Gallery: http://www.tom.vanbaardwijk.com
