> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Gautam Mukunda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Verzonden: woensdag 24 april 2002 14:56 > Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Onderwerp: RE: Scouted: Commentary: Why Europe Sides Against > the Jews / > time.com
> > > France was almost as enthusiastic about killing its Jews as Germany > > > was. Every country in Europe was, save Britain, of course. > > That is oversimplifying the matter. Europe was under German occupation, > which means the Germans were in charge. Was the Dutch government > "enthusiastic about killing Jews"? No, because their was no real Dutch > government present. When Germany invaded The Netherlands, the > government went into exile in Great Britain. What subsequently passed > for government in the country was nothing but a Nazi collaborator put > in place by the Nazis. > > Your argument that every country in Europe was enthusiastic about > killing Jews is therefore false and nothing but yet another sweeping > generalisation. > > Me: > Ah yes, you poor innocents. There's no history of anti-semitism in > Europe. Nothing happened from 1940-5 that any of us should be > concerned about, right Jeroen? Did I say that? No, I did not. You are again reading things that are not there. You made a sweeping generalisation by saying that *all* European countries (except Britain -- coincidentally also the only country not to be invaded by Germany) were enthusiastic about killing Jews. It only takes one example to to prove such a generalisation wrong. I showed you that The Netherlands was not "enthusiastic" about killing Jews, thus showing that your generalisation is wrong. > The people of Western Europe could have fought to protect their Jews - > and themselves too, of course. Even under occupation they could have > tried. But they didn't. Usually they helped, from what we can tell. This is utter bullshit. Just because some people collaborated with the enemy, you immediately assume that all Europeans were helping the Nazis. Again, most of them were not. There *was* resistance, there *were* people hiding Jews from the Nazis. > Well, for someone who discusses topics like this incessantly, your > views show a vast degree of ignorance, so we'll call it even. Wait a minute. Am *I* showing ignorance? YOU are the one showing ignorance here. You keep insisting that Europeans did nothing to help Jews, even when it is pointed out to you that people did try to help. You keep implying that all of Europe happily helped the Nazis round up the Jews, even when it is pointed out to you that it is a false generalisation. > Why would you possibly think that Europe would still be ruled by > Germans if the vast majority of citizens had been collaborators? I'm > not saying they were - they weren't, it was just that in the particular > case of the extermination of the Jews, they didn't give a damn No, of course we did not give a damn. I guess that is why ordinary people risked their lives fighting in the resistance -- because they did not give a damn. I guess that is why ordinary people risked their lives by hiding Jews in their homes -- because they did not give a damn (ever heard of Anne Frank?). I guess that is why so many farmers suddenly had so many "relatives from the city" in their homes -- because we did not give a damn. I guess that is why so many ordinary people were tortured and murdered for fighting in the resistance or for hiding Jews -- because they did not give a damn. > If the US were attacked by Canada (or anyone else) well, first, we > wouldn't roll over and give up the way every Western European country > did, so that would be a big difference right there. Unlike the US, European countries did (and still do) not have the huge amounts of money to spend on their military. When Germany invaded my country, the Dutch military did fight back for several days. Do you know why we surrendered? Because our forces were no match for the German forces. It also did not help us that the Germans had the element of surprise on their side. > The European press fabricates wholesale tales of massacres in Jenin, > and then never even bothers to retract them when the truth that no > such thing happened is revealed. Israel had sealed off Jenin; the reports that *did* get out came from people who had managed to escape. Israel could have shown them wrong, but let that opportunity slip by denying the press access to Jenin. Contrary to what you claim, the truth has not yet been revealed. First, Israel denied the press access to Jenin. Then, there was a report of an Israeli officer telling a journalist that Israel could not leave Jenin because once it did and the world would see what happened, support for Israel would plummet. And then there is that UN investigation. You know, the one that Israel first agreed to and then decided to block. All that is not proof of a massacre, but those actions certainly do imply that Israel does not want the world to know what happened. > Europeans _killed_ all their Jews. Hm, then were did all those Jews come from that emigrated to the US and Israel *after* the war? > How many do you know, Jeroen? I have no idea. Unlike in the US, people tend to keep their religion to themselves and usually do not go about pointing out to everyone within earshot that they are Jewish/Catholic/Muslem/whatever. > Are there as many Jews in all of the Netherlands as there are in, say, > Boston? As many in all of Western Europe as there are in New York? I > doubt it. I cannot tell -- I do not know how many Jews there are in Boston and New York. > Western Europe has no major Jewish communities because all of the > members of the ones that used to thrive there are dead. Most of them will be, by now. A large number of them will be dead because they were killed by the Nazis, most of the survivors have by now died of old age. > You seem unwilling to take any risks for anyone else. Yep -- that is why we keep sending Dutch troops on UN missions around the world: because we do not want to take any risks for anyone else. > You have variously suggested that the Netherlands should be reluctant > to aid the US in Afghanistan for fear of terrorist retaliation, and > that it is legitimate to restrict Jewish freedom of speech to protect > people against terrorists. > Americans have a word for views like that. The sad thing is that so > many of your countrymen seem to feel the same way. We have a word for your attitude as well. Anti-Europe. Jeroen _________________________________________________________________________ Wonderful World of Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com Tom's Photo Gallery: http://tom.vanbaardwijk.com
