THE REAL ADMINISTRATORS ARE THE VIETNAMESE. The Cambodian co-prosecutor at the Extraordinary Chambers, Chea Leang, a Vietnamese woman who has moved to block any expansion of the trial docket. (Photo by: TRACEY SHELTON)
> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:38:40 -0700 > Subject: Re: It is neither democracy nor economy: 4th Episode of "A Tale of A > Weak State with A Strong Man" > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > > OK!. Now you can tell us why you are saying that. > Are you saying it because you don't like the comments? > Can you dispute those comments? > Here it is again. Go paragraph by paragraph and explain to us why it > wrong. > Can you do that? > You can do it if you are intelligent enough. > Here we go again. > > > On Mar 18, 2:02 am, Khmer Young <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > If Cambodia is still moving in the current path, it cannot avoid from > > devastating. It is just a sign of a "weak state under the control of a > > strong man with his patrimonial vein". Patrimony and patronage system like > > current Cambodia cannot move any further of progress, it is just a "ah kvak > > ah kven tale" in Cambodia literature. > > > If it's so bad, why Cambodia is where it is today? > If it's so bad, why are many nations investing in Cambodia today? > If it's so bad, why are Cambodians enjoying their lives today? > > > > A simple question for all Cambodian people to consider is: do Cambodians > > want to develop democracy or do Cambodians want to develop economy? > > > Cambodians know their country better than anyone on earth. They are > living it. > Cambodians demonstrated clearly of how they want their country to be > through a fair election. > They demonstrated it clearly. They rejected the attitude of division. > They rejected Sam Rainsy and his party. > > > > Some Cambodians might think that democracy is not important, economy and > > jobs are important. Or some might think that when people have good job and > > good family economy, the democracy will be easily developed. All these > > questions are moving around the debate by both the ordinary people, the > > elites, and the learned people. > > > No matter how others think. The Cambodian people own their own > country. They know what they want for their country. > If they want destruction, who can stop them. > If they want prosperity, who can stop them. > No other nation on earth should force Cambodians to do anything. They > may guide them. But don't tell them how to live their lives. > Cambodia is an independent nation. Let them live their own destiny. > > > > But all these debates and questions are just the subversion from the > > reality. CPP understands well on how to subvert the attention of Cambodian > > people or to manipulate the them. > > > It is very simple to understand. CPP has been in power for a very > long time. Everyone has seen the products of their endeavor. Why > can't > Cambodians reject them it they see it as bad things for their > country? > Why are they voting for CPP instead of Sam Rainsy? > That's what they want for their own country. > If Sam Rainsy and his party are so good for their nation, they could > have voted for them already. Instead, they denied them. > This is the reality. > > > > In reality, Cambodia has accounted neither economic development nor > > democracy enhancement. When, we talk about the democracy, the major has to > > respect the minor. But it is not like that because CPP's outspoken men will > > try to bully the minor SRP with many different political rhetorics. For > > instance, the PM had said this party is trying to victimize the major. When > > SRP proposes some collective concerns involving the nation, CPP will see > > SRP's proposal as non-sense or political oriented etc > > > My friend, > The international monitor called the last election as the fairest > election Cambodians ever held since the war. > The Cambodian people rejected Sam Rainsy party because they know full > well that Sam Rainsy and his party can't do anything. > They know what they have had with CPP. They know how to compare them. > They know how to vote. > In the last election, they rejected the chaos. They voted for the > party who has lead them so far to today. > If they really don't like CPP, > If they think that CPP has sold their country to Vietnam, they could > have voted them out. Insted, they voted them in. > That's their voice. And are you telling us that they are wrong? > How can you consider yourself better than the Cambodian people? > > > > How Cambodia democracy can be developed when the rule of laws and the check > > and ballance have been shied away? > > > No matter how good democracy is, Cambodians have demonstrated clearly > what they want and don't want. > They voted for CPP and rejected SAM RAINSY. > One can cry all they want. Cambodia is the nation of the Cambodian > people. They know wha tthey want for their country. > > > > On the other hand, how Cambodia can develop her economic when potential > > sectors such as agriculture, tourism and industry have never got any proper > > plan to develop in a sustainable trajectory? How Cambodia can develop its > > economy when this country is hugely depending on foreign aid. Previously, > > the government has showed its well done job in attracting foreign aid, but > > showed its inability of implementing the essence of the property laws, the > > corruption law, and the diversification of national economy. > > > Who has the right to make the judgement? > Cambodia has developped their country thus far under the leadership > of > CPP. And they are enjoying it. > Cambodia has not been thus far for a very long time. What do you > want? > Do you want them to move backward to depression just in the name of > democracy? > Cambodians do what deem to be good for them. They care more or less > what the outsiders are saying. They are the ones who live through it. > > > > Cambodia should change its approach from current dumb vision of moving no > > way to moving in an cunning way: to project the rule of laws for the nation > > such as property rights, corruption law; to develop economy of > > self-reliance; and to create the sphere of national unity by coordinating > > with all political parties, respecting and providing full freedom of speech, > > and accelerating the effectiveness of youth education etc > > > SHOULD is the key. > They should do this and that etc.... > Yet they are not doing it because that's what they want for their own > county. > You must respect that. > > > > If Cambodia is still moving in the current path, it cannot avoid from > > devastating. It is just a sign of a "weak state under the control of a > > strong man with his patrimonial vein". Patrimony and patronage system like > > current Cambodia cannot move any further of progress, it is just a "ah kvak > > ah kven tale" in Cambodia literature. > > > People have been saying this for decades. Yet, Cambodia has been > growing. > They manage their own country as they know how. They enjoy it. > Many oversea people have been trying to steer Cambodia to do what > they > don't want. > Sam Rainsy came from oversea bringing something Cambodians don't > want. > Sam Rainsy can yell how great democracy is etc....., Cambodians have > all rights to reject it. > And they did. > > > > Below is the letter from SRP's PMs who are trying to ensure that Cambodia > > has democracy. > > > Sam Rainsy and his party are dead. > The Cambodian people have rejected them. > > > On Mar 18, 2:13 pm, Khmer Young <[email protected]> wrote: > > Kangaroo, > > > > I know your responding is not different from government's spokesman. > > It is just the responding from a character of Khmer Rouge leaders. > > Once Pol Pot boasted that Cambodia will not listen to anyone, they > > developed their own mastery and supremacy. Now your responding to my > > thought is like that. But yours is more dangerous than Pol Pot's > > because Pol Pot responded to their group of leaders only, but yours or > > the CPP's will use Cambodian people as their tool. Everything good or > > bad they will blame the Cambodian people. Through the election, how > > Cambodian people trusted CPP, read below essay: > > --------------------------- > > Monday, March 9, 2009 > > Election for Power Legitimacy in Cambodia: 3rd Episode "A Strongman in > > a Weak State" > > Last time in 2nd Episode I described "the statement of Cambodia Prime > > Minister to discard the National Congress from National Constitution, > > his fearful political rhetoric to jeopardize the people, and the use > > of major parliamentary to lift opposition immunity without conscience" > > are the sign of leader's inability to protect the constitution, to > > provide rubric for bottom-line people, and lacking of check and > > balance of power...which all these showcase the characteristic of > > "weak state" that "strongman" is perpetuating to consolidate his > > power. > > > > CPP is leading major voice in the assembly but this party is not > > relevant to the amount of valid votes. CPP is leading the major voice > > in the assembly but this party is far away from all vote registrants > > of 8 millions. CPP is leading the major voice in the assembly but this > > party is very very far way from the total Cambodian population (14 > > millions). > > > > This time I will concentrate on the "Cambodia Election" has been used > > as the mean to legitimize personal power. And this practice is showing > > Cambodia as one of the weak states lacking willingness to implement > > "the rule of law". Major Cambodian people might see the victory of CPP > > in recent national election (27 July 2008) as their proud victory, but > > observers and academic analysts see this election as a game of "power > > legitimacy". There are numerous complaints made by Opposition Parties > > about the unequal media distribution, ballot irregularities, vote > > buying, intimidation, bias National Election Committee (NEC), and > > other disenfranchisement etc. But all these might not be relevant like > > "the very low participation of the voters". > > > > When we are looking at the numbers of vote registrants, we satisfy > > with that. There were about 8 million registrants or around 60 percent > > (8/14 millions). But when we look at the actual valid vote number, > > there are around 6 millions cast their ballots (or 6,010,277 total > > valid votes). So we can say that 2 millions skeptically lost their > > chance to cast the ballot. But when we look at the vote numbers > > casting for CPP, there are around 3 millions (3,492,374 votes). This > > number is not significant for CPP to receive major seats in the > > assembly at all. However, CPP is taking absolute major voice in the > > parliament. This party is holding 90 seats among all 123 seats. > > > > This 90 seats don't correctly reflect the 5.4 percent votes cast for > > CPP at all. CPP is leading major voice in the assembly but this party > > is not relevant to the amount of valid votes. CPP is leading the major > > voice in the assembly but this party is far away from all vote > > registrants of 8 millions. CPP is leading the major voice in the > > assembly but this party is very very far way from the total Cambodian > > population (14 millions). This election figure tells us the myth of > > political legimacy gained by the CPP in Cambodia. Comparing 3.4 > > million voted for CPP with 14 millions of total population surely > > informs us the "weakness" of Cambodia nation. It is weak because the > > 90 seats of major voice really doesn't reflect the support of > > Cambodians. CPP is lacking support from Cambodian people, but why > > opposition party cannot step into this situation? This also shows the > > "weakness" of Cambodia nation. Opposition needs to warm up themselves > > a little bit. CPP is not truly leading opposition party in a strong > > manner, but in a weak manner and manipulation. > > > > In conclusion, CPP is proud of its victory over election just for > > their own power and interest. But CPP's winning of electiion truly > > informs us the "The Strongman in a Weak State". > > > > KY > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > On Mar 18, 12:35 am, kangaroo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 18, 2:02 am, Khmer Young <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > If Cambodia is still moving in the current path, it cannot avoid from > > > > devastating. It is just a sign of a "weak state under the control of a > > > > strong man with his patrimonial vein". Patrimony and patronage system > > > > like > > > > current Cambodia cannot move any further of progress, it is just a "ah > > > > kvak > > > > ah kven tale" in Cambodia literature. > > > > > If it's so bad, why Cambodia is where it is today? > > > If it's so bad, why are many nations investing in Cambodia today? > > > If it's so bad, why are Cambodians enjoying their lives today? > > > > > > A simple question for all Cambodian people to consider is: do Cambodians > > > > want to develop democracy or do Cambodians want to develop economy? > > > > > Cambodians know their country better than anyone on earth. They are > > > living it. > > > Cambodians demonstrated clearly of how they want their country to be > > > through a fair election. > > > They demonstrated it clearly. They rejected the attitude of division. > > > They rejected Sam Rainsy and his party. > > > > > > Some Cambodians might think that democracy is not important, economy and > > > > jobs are important. Or some might think that when people have good job > > > > and > > > > good family economy, the democracy will be easily developed. All these > > > > questions are moving around the debate by both the ordinary people, the > > > > elites, and the learned people. > > > > > No matter how others think. The Cambodian people own their own > > > country. They know what they want for their country. > > > If they want destruction, who can stop them. > > > If they want prosperity, who can stop them. > > > No other nation on earth should force Cambodians to do anything. They > > > may guide them. But don't tell them how to live their lives. > > > Cambodia is an independent nation. Let them live their own destiny. > > > > > > But all these debates and questions are just the subversion from the > > > > reality. CPP understands well on how to subvert the attention of > > > > Cambodian > > > > people or to manipulate the them. > > > > > It is very simple to understand. CPP has been in power for a very > > > long time. Everyone has seen the products of their endeavor. Why can't > > > Cambodians reject them it they see it as bad things for their country? > > > Why are they voting for CPP instead of Sam Rainsy? > > > That's what they want for their own country. > > > If Sam Rainsy and his party are so good for their nation, they could > > > have voted for them already. Instead, they denied them. > > > This is the reality. > > > > > > In reality, Cambodia has accounted neither economic development nor > > > > democracy enhancement. When, we talk about the democracy, the major has > > > > to > > > > respect the minor. But it is not like that because CPP's outspoken men > > > > will > > > > try to bully the minor SRP with many different political rhetorics. For > > > > instance, the PM had said this party is trying to victimize the major. > > > > When > > > > SRP proposes some collective concerns involving the nation, CPP will see > > > > SRP's proposal as non-sense or political oriented etc > > > > > My friend, > > > The international monitor called the last election as the fairest > > > election Cambodians ever held since the war. > > > The Cambodian people rejected Sam Rainsy party because they know full > > > well that Sam Rainsy and his party can't do anything. > > > They know what they have had with CPP. They know how to compare them. > > > They know how to vote. > > > In the last election, they rejected the chaos. They voted for the > > > party who has lead them so far to today. > > > If they really don't like CPP, > > > If they think that CPP has sold their country to Vietnam, they could > > > have voted them out. Insted, they voted them in. > > > That's their voice. And are you telling us that they are wrong? > > > How can you consider yourself better than the Cambodian people? > > > > > > How Cambodia democracy can be developed when the rule of laws and the > > > > check > > > > and ballance have been shied away? > > > > > No matter how good democracy is, Cambodians have demonstrated clearly > > > what they want and don't want. > > > They voted for CPP and rejected SAM RAINSY. > > > One can cry all they want. Cambodia is the nation of the Cambodian > > > people. They know wha tthey want for their country. > > > > > > On the other hand, how Cambodia can develop her economic when potential > > > > sectors such as agriculture, tourism and industry have never got any > > > > proper > > > > plan to develop in a sustainable trajectory? How Cambodia can develop > > > > its > > > > economy when this country is hugely depending on foreign aid. > > > > Previously, > > > > the government has showed its well done job in attracting foreign aid, > > > > but > > > > showed its inability of implementing the essence of the property laws, > > > > the > > > > corruption law, and the diversification of national economy. > > > > > Who has the right to make the judgement? > > > Cambodia has developped their country thus far under the leadership of > > > CPP. And they are enjoying it. > > > Cambodia has not been thus far for a very long time. What do you want? > > > Do you want them to move backward to depression just in the name of > > > democracy? > > > Cambodians do what deem to be good for them. They care more or less > > > what the outsiders are saying. They are the ones who live through it. > > > > > > Cambodia should change its approach from current dumb vision of moving > > > > no > > > > way to moving in an cunning way: to project the rule of laws for the > > > > nation > > > > such as property rights, corruption law; to develop economy of > > > > self-reliance; and to > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. 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